The late war economy Erel, did they exist?

[Paul McKee]

Ben,
A very good question...and one I'm afraid I don't have an exact answer for. If anyone could cite any wartime regulations regarding this, I'd like to hear of it. The closest Wilkins addresses it is thus:

"Once the war was fully underway, frontline soldiers holding ranks lower than sergeant actually had few opportunities to wear a visor cap. While on leave from the front, the normal headgear was the M34 field cap (garrison cap), later, the standard field cap (M43)."

It makes me wonder...have you ever seen a government-issued Heer enlisted visor cap with a 1943-45 date inside? I sense the vast majority date from the late 1930's, wouldn't you agree?
Paul

[Dave Kane]

Paul, thanks..I couldn't agree more!

Then, let's consider the number of caps w/ bullion eagles and wreaths ( something collectors 'ate up' and even demanded in the 60's / 70's ) that the cost in 'reality' would have been far out of reach, if not even the interest was there in the later years....

[mjfur]

I've noticed that the late war eReL Luft. visors seem to have a different eagle on them. They have extra blue backing material to the right of the chest and under the head. Any explanations?

regards,
Mike

[Lucky Duck]

Those eagles with the simplified cut around the right side are legit. Photos of Barkhorn after his 250th victory show him wearing a cap with one, which puts them at least as early as Feb 1944.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Barkhorn

HTH
Ray

PS @ Dave, thanks. I think the problem of fake headgear is worse than the general collecting population believes it to be.

[Lucky Duck]

Paul, thanks..I couldn't agree more!

Then, let's consider the number of caps w/ bullion eagles and wreaths ( something collectors 'ate up' and even demanded in the 60's / 70's ) that the cost in 'reality' would have been far out of reach, if not even the interest was there in the later years....

Good point, Dave. Let's also consider sizes. Now that I think of it, I don't recall seeing many less desirable small (56 & under) sizes. Not in the same small / large ratio I've seen early caps.

Sincerely,
Ray

[NTZ]

Good point, Dave. Let's also consider sizes. Now that I think of it, I don't recall seeing many less desirable small (56 & under) sizes. Not in the same small / large ratio I've seen early caps.

Sincerely,
Ray

Now that is a real good point. In my quick study of these I can only remember seeing sizes 58, 59 & 60.

[Vaughn O.]

Here's a Late Erel Luftwaffe Gen Visor with the visor Gary mentions.

Interior - Has the double Erel logo but imprinted without the silver ink.

[sturmbannfuhrer]

Now that is a real good point. In my quick study of these I can only remember seeing sizes 58, 59 & 60.

We could now be getting to the reason for many of these caps being in tip top condition. At the wars end, most of the bigger heads were already dead, the pin heads (young uns) were now doing the killing / dying. My medical is mint and is about a 59 in size. Taking into account the others seen so far as well as mine, (mine does not have the DL mark on the sweatband and has no storage marks on the visor), it is possible these caps were raided from a Kleiderkasse outlet, or another possibility, from the factory itself. Who knows, that is sometimes the beauty of collecting these items.

i am still a believer, quoting from the life of brian, "persecute the non believers".

[Lucky Duck]

We could now be getting to the reason for many of these caps being in tip top condition. At the wars end, most of the bigger heads were already dead, the pin heads (young uns) were now doing the killing / dying. My medical is mint and is about a 59 in size. ...

You're joking? Hat size doesn't change after age 13 or thereabouts. Unless one puts on a massive amount of weight, or grows hippy hair. Anyhow the young soldiers doing the killing were mostly wearing EM field caps, not officer visors. IMHO "scenarios" almost never add authenticity to a piece.

Sincerely,
Ray

[sturmbannfuhrer]

Anyhow the young soldiers doing the killing were mostly wearing EM field caps, not officer visors. IMHO "scenarios" almost never add authenticity to a piece.

Sincerely,
Ray

Hi Ray, that was the point I was making, in a somewhat subtle manner to yours. The younger individuals heads wouldn't fit the larger caps generally, as you stated, the head sizes after 13 etc... hence the reason the bigger size caps (meant for older boys) were not worn as they were too big for the younger lads and are mainly found mint. That is MHO also.

[Lucky Duck]

Hi Ray, that was the point I was making, in a somewhat subtle manner to yours. The younger individuals heads wouldn't fit the larger caps generally, as you stated, the head sizes after 13 etc... hence the reason the bigger size caps (meant for older boys) were not worn as they were too big for the younger lads and are mainly found mint. That is MHO also.

Huh? Your reasoning seems circular but I think you're confusing head sizes with waist sizes. As I said above, cap sizes don't change much if at all, over age 13 or so. In other words, older soldiers would not require a larger proportion of larger sizes. And I've seen a fair share of small size General's caps.

Bone growth/ density and so on is a topic for medical researchers and nutritionists, but its pretty clear that postwar American collectors put a premium on larger sizes.

Sincerely,
Ray

[NTZ]

I don’t think this thread will ever die. Interesting visor on PVL’s site. Here is an unquestionable, dead mint textbook Erel with guess what? A pressed paper visors.

[J C Gray]

Good point, Dave. Let's also consider sizes. Now that I think of it, I don't recall seeing many less desirable small (56 & under) sizes. Not in the same small / large ratio I've seen early caps.

Sincerely,
Ray

For what it's worth, the Kav. visor that I posted earlier on in this thread is a size 56.

[Dave Kane]

Here's a very early 50's Lubstein.....

Even the diamond is celluloid!

[solo]

Nick ,please, post the phtos of my cap ,you Know I cant.
Carlo