The late war economy Erel, did they exist?

[NTZ]

It would also be nice if one of the five that voted no would speak up on why so we can carry one an intelligent discussion regarding these caps.

[J C Gray]

I don't think so. It's the Deutsch Leder stamp isn't it?

Ben is correct.

[Dave Kane]

After all this time I'm surprised that this thread isn't raging.....

The 50/50 aspect should have demanded a lively discussion so I wonder what's going on!

There are many, many of these caps out there and have been in collections for years so let's go (owners) show pics and let's discuss

[NTZ]

Dave let me start it out by posting some photos off some sites. There seems to be a good mix between early and late war sweatbands mixed with shields with foil and no foil, trikot/ wool and vulcanfiber/pressed paper. So with these photos is one to assume that there was a logical progression in the decline in Lubstein’s visors?


!st one, Doeskin thin piping, dark early-mid sweatband with no marking.

[NTZ]

2nd one. Doeskin, later war fold over sweatband, markings, thick piping and vulcan fiber.

[NTZ]

3rd. Trikot, fold over band, thick piping, no markings and a vulcanfiber visor

[NTZ]

4th what has come to be known as the economy Erel. Trikot, thick piping, no markings, fold over band and pressed paper visor.

[NTZ]

One more late Erel

[sturmbannfuhrer]

I like these late visor's, Nick has already seen pics of my cap. I'll try and add the pics of mine to the thread. To have a complete collection of Lubstein's, one of this type is a major requirement.

These caps also show how the quality of workmanship of German caps at the end of the war was. The material quality dips but the skills in manufacture stay high.

[Gerard/Relic Hunter]

I believe the reason we have not heard from the poo-pooers, is that they don't like these caps because of superstitions. They don't like them, but have no idea why, most likely it is lack of experience and they are not what they are used to seeing. Just my 2 pennies.



-Gerard

[REMUS]

Allthough my opinion doesn't really counts since I am not yet an advanced collector,I voted yes.
The reason why is simple,doesn't Nick proof it with his visor and the pics of the other visors? So far there is noone who voted no,that shows us that the ones who voted yes,are wrong.

Isn't it logical that at the end of the war,good material was hard to get for tailers,as it was for everyone in Germany?

Jeremy

[Perry Floyd]

Please keep in mind often times in these online poles many vote against the majority or what is considered a "no brainer" just to get a rise out of people. Not really caring of the issue.. Not allways the case in every instance but I do know it happens on many occasions.

Something to allways keep in mind..

[sturmbannfuhrer]

Another interesting point I have noticed with these late "erel's" is that they either have the die stamped but not inked in celluloid mark with a blank sweatband, or the sweatband stamped impression and a non marked celluloid sweat shield.

I have yet to see one of these types that has a marked sweatband and marked celluloid, the so called "double erel".

Please if anyone has one, share it with us.

Once again, If you collect erel's but do not have one of these, you don't have a proper erel collection.

[NTZ]

The missing link? Well I guess the evolution of the Erel visor is becoming somewhat of an obsession for me. I guess I am just one of those guys that has to know all he can possibly learn, oh well. Anyway I thought these photos might be interesting. If you look at enough Erel’s you can see the direction they were taking. The use of trikot steadily increased, padding looked to have been reduced, the use of the later style sweatband, flaking foil lettering and then finally just the imprint. The one part of the puzzle that I had a hard time connecting was the jump from a vulcanfiber visors to the all black pressed paper. You seen a mix of the other traits starting somewhere around 42-43 and progressing but then out of nowhere these black visors appeared. Well here is a photo that might bridge the gap. This is on pg.131 of Moran & Maguire’s German Headgear. It looks to be a trikot Erel Privat with the earlier style sweatband and a pressed paper visor. The padding in the peak looks a bit light too. Assuming this visor is untouched and not messed with in any way I think that completes the circle. All traits found on the so-called economy Erel can be traced through know originals as the war progressed. To be honest I was not 100% sure of these economy Erel’s one way or another. This photo does give me much more confidence that they are 100% legit.

[BenVK]

I'd like to commend Nick on his efforts to try and get to the bottom of this late war erel question. For me, this kind of detective work is what our hobby and this forum should be about. Finding the facts, firstly for your own pleasure but ultimatley to benefit everybody.

Anyway, the one thing that still puzzles me about erel and the obvious decline of the quality materials in their caps is why we don't see the same development so much with the other big manufactures of TR hats, the Clemens Wagners and the Schellenburgs etc? (well, not until after the war at least) Did erel have no choice but to make do with sub standard materials as the war drew to a close or did they make a conscious and rather forward thinking design decision to make less flamboyant, easier to make and more affordable caps because they were clever enough to recognise that the demand for high end headgear was just not there anymore and would never be again?