Houffalize Panther from 116 PzDiv will be completely overhauled

[Lloyds]

How many 100% original running Panthers are out there?


Don

about 8 panthers and 4 jagdpanthers

[DonC]

about 8 panthers and 4 jagdpanthers

My point was that any of the runners out there today are not 100% original - they have replaced parts, tracks wheels, engines, drive-trains, etc. I am happy to see a tank running even if it is not 100% pure. I just don't think that is possible seventy-odd years on. Just my $.02.


Don

[29THPZG]

I agree, I also wasn't aware the V2 prototype Tiger II at Bovington was complete. I was there last spring for the exhibit and didn't recall mention of it being complete internally. I had the pleasure of seeing the Tiger II at Samur run once sometime back. My remarks apply to US and British tanks as well as German. I recognize the cost involved, but also it is a draw for the museum as well is it not? The trip to Bovington was motivated by a desire to see the Tiger I run but I guess we who are willing to pay to see it are very much a minority.

[Dufleuve]

Have a look at Houffalize pictures in 1945...
Although I regret it will not be better restored/preserved, I think the town council and inhabitants have the right to do whatever they want with the Panther as a hefty price was paid by their parents to have the "privilege" to retain that souvenir.

[RTY]

Yes in a perfect world this would be the case,but it isn't so we have to make do with what we have,remember the people in charge are the Council not Tank collectors or restoration specialists,like i said they just want it to look good for the tourists that come to the town,so they spend money
Cheers
Bob

No problem to make mockup for tourists. They're not a reason to destroy the Panther.

[RTY]

All should understand several propositions.

1) When you remove (and sold) an engine or some other device from the tank, a lot of little details will be lost forever. Some of them will be broken during disassembly (look at the video of the Houffalize Panther disassembly - shame on the people who did that), some will be missed/stolen for souvenirs.

2) All tanks are little different, even of the same modification. A lot of the little or big differencies. So, if you sold original device from the tank, then buy another one - you can catch surprises.

3) To preserve the tank parts, no need to restore all the tanks for running condition and take big money for that. Enough is to make a cheap hangar to save the tank from the snow and rain (and thiefs), and make preservation actions, that are much cheaper than restoration up to running.
this will save the tank for the future, when some people can find money for complete restoration.

[cossack1648]

Have a look at Houffalize pictures in 1945...
Although I regret it will not be better restored/preserved, I think the town council and inhabitants have the right to do whatever they want with the Panther as a hefty price was paid by their parents to have the "privilege" to retain that souvenir.

Absolutely. Of course they can do whatever they want to do with it since the towns owns it, and only its Council has the power to decide the tank's fate. Nobody can influence or force them to change their intentions. We can only express our opinions. That's all we can do regardless if we like Council's decision or not plus it has already been done.

The fact is however that they make that tank less complete and their decision is short sighted. If for example in 20 years from now opportunities arise to do a more complete restoration, the tank will be missing more parts and components than today. It's value will be less and any possible restoration will be more expensive and difficult. Cosmetic restoration without protection from weather is only good for some time, maybe 10, maybe 20 years. After that another one will be needed. What will they sell then to pay for it?
It is their business to do what they want with it, but I find it sad that when you look at all the wrecks that are being pulled up from bottom of lakes and swamps to be brought back to life and here relatively well preserved tank is being chopped up in to pieces.

[ENGLISH BOB]

Latest pics now on Facebook,hull now sandblasted and grey primed ,there are no interior shots shown but the exterior hull looks very good now its been primed.
The Panther now loaded on a low loader for transportation to Germany for further restoration at the Kring's collection i believe.

Bob

[Lloyds]

i cant believe they have had the panther for about 2 years and only managed to sandblast it and prime it (about 2 days work)

[ENGLISH BOB]

i cant believe they have had the panther for about 2 years and only managed to sandblast it and prime it (about 2 days work)

I think now its going to someone who knows exactly what they are doing it should move on at a pace.
As we know its down to money and this is not a Wheatcroft or Weald Foundation Project so it is where it is,anyway better something is being done to preserve it rather than just sitting there rusting away,saying that looking at the pictures it is in surprisingly good condition.

Bob

[DonC]

better something is being done to preserve it rather than just sitting there rusting away,saying that looking at the pictures it is in surprisingly good condition.

Bob

+1


Don

[harrison987]

if restoring to static...I would ALWAYS keep all the original parts with it.

Clean them up, preserve them etc.

Selling off parts because of the attitude, "oh, well...it is never going to run, and we do not have the costs to restore it fully"...I think is blasphemy.

Remember that StuG that was pulled out of the bog a few years back in all original paint, and ALL original internal equipment?

Before and after:

[harrison987]

Final paint scheme:

[oberjaeger]

[tintin44]

+