Houffalize Panther from 116 PzDiv will be completely overhauled

[Lloyds]

Hi everyone.
I was at Bastogne barracks in October.
The panther chassis was sitting on a wheeled cradle outside the restoration workshop. The chassis had been stripped down and all wheels removed like it was getting ready to go into sandblasting .

Its taken 1,1/2 years to get to that stage maybe in the next 10-20 years they will finish it but probably minus its engine and gearbox

[RTY]

Hi everyone.
I was at Bastogne barracks in October.
The panther chassis was sitting on a wheeled cradle outside the restoration workshop. The chassis had been stripped down and all wheels removed like it was getting ready to go into sandblasting .

Photos?

[ENGLISH BOB]

Sandblasting already under way,photos are on Facebook look for Volunteers at Bastogne Barracks..I'd post a couple but i'm not Assoc. member here anymore and won't be until this site and its issues get sorted out..

I will say it the panther is looking a lot better now the sandblaasting is taking place,outer hull is scrubbing up well,some corrosion to the interior which can be treated,its in pretty good condition considering the neglect its suffered over the years..
I believe the Krings Collection in now involved and are helping with the restoration,i'm pretty sure they are supplying the missing road wheels...I think we'd be all in agreement that if this tank is never going to run again that the Engine and Gearbox should be sold to finance the restoration to the best possible standard and a shelter provided to keep the worst of the elements off of it.. I really hope the Grandmenil panther gets the same treatment soon as it is sacrilege to let these rare beasts rust away...
Cheers
Bob

[dflament]

Yesterday I heard from one of the volunteers that the panther is indeed going back to Houffalize once its finished and will be part of a new museum apparently.

He showed me a picture from the 'windhund' symbol on the hull. Don't know if it got sandblasted or left as such.

[spaltring]

restoration

hello , is this panter still have its engine and gear?
regards
phil

[spaltring]

panther,

i have read the previous mails it looks like what i was informed is correct,
it has its engine and gear, Now i was told that a german guy will restore it tracks and wheels in return he will receive engine and gear …..anyone can confirm??
if this is correct it shows what low profile the restoration facility in Bastogne has to give away 25000 euros for a job that can be done easely here
the german guy must be verry happy with the gift !!!
difficult to understand the mentlity of maniging a project or do they have spare engine and getriebe ???
would be happy if someone serious can confirm those rumors
cheers
phil

[ENGLISH BOB]

I don't see a problem with the engine and gearbox being sold,this Panther has to go back where it came from once restored,hopefully the money raised from any sale will go towards a proper structured cover to protect it from the elements and the best possible restoration that can be delivered under the circumstances.
I believe the Krings collection is helping with the restoration,though i don't know whether they are the ones looking to buy the engine and gearbox,what i do know is Mike Gibb and Weald Foundation are rebuilding another JagdPanther this coming year so maybe they could be interested in these items,unless of course they already have something lined up.
As i've said before the Grandmenil which also has its engine and gearbox intact should be next up for restoration before that ends up as pile of rust.

[dflament]

Well I just asked my "source" and he can confirm this. The gearbox and transmission is being sold off...

[spaltring]

hello BOB,
its how you look to it ,I think that a tank that is resotred compleetly , first of all its value willbe higher, secondly knowing that the facilities and people to restore are avaible
The history of this tank in houffalize had to be kept as compleet as possible but not 1 piece there and another one there its a waist of local history .they could have it made in running condition, look to other private owners they can do it even by swapping items to make their more compleet or in running condition , but look where this unique part ends up... only the outher will be left ,but patriotism generaly in Belgium is not prior as usual
its managed by bureaucraty and this f.. everything
theycould have had a nice piece in running condition could maybe participate in gahterings or in battle reanacments or ends it last days but still running is Bastogne B .Some countries would have payed big money to have something like this (with history)into their collection but here it goes the other way poor mentality ...

[spaltring]

thanks flament for the confirmation,
cheers
phil

[dflament]

Ok, I have confirmation from my "source" to tell something more, had to ask first because I didn't want to bring him into bad daylight here.

The transmission and engine is being sold off to a German buyer, in exchange they will receive original paint and explanation how to apply this.

On part of the transmission: this was in perfect condition. Absolutely perfect condition so for the German buyer it's a very good trade. The problem here is that the tank is property of the town Houffalize and not the Belgian military. They have to subsidize it some way or the other. Tax-payers don't care about this do they had to make compromises. But at least the guys at Bastogne or doing a good job at preserving this Panzer.

As far as the goal of this restoration; Externally and internally (for what's left) as close and properly as possible to the original.

I would like to post pictures but I'm not a paying member

[spaltring]

hello Flament,
thanks,
its not of putting a person in bad daylight here , here its about whom ever took the decission of swapping engine and gear which is a part of a local history that now is tearing apart and then for some some called Original paint ( later more on this) those don't bother about patrimonium feelings and value of the subject , of course city of houffalize has no money but it can be done by guys whom has the scills and expertise in this matter in Belgium there are good restorers with scills, there could have been Always found a solution for this matter anyway its to late yet we can still yek about it for the next 5 hrs.And about the paint where will this tank go after restoration back to its place "outside " where it was before or covered in a museum still to be build ?
Original paint how do we to have to understand this? aint still recovered from war time or war time collors ?
don't forget we are yet 80 years later the quality of paints has been improved esspecialy for out door to (Industrial paint)quality why still using then (if they will ??)war time paint doesn't least ages. If it comes to colors of "war time"they could buy it in Germany from Kirroff farbe .de that company provides correct paint also 1 component as it was during ww2, they have there someone who is doing research in the "technical matter of so called "war time" paint they know about what they are talking coz they have the color cards and war time piant literature , coz you can also put paint from Carrefour or other shop one thing is RAL collors now are NOT same as war time ral collors , you can go into restoration verry good but some neglekt the final work "paint job" that leads somethimes to very ugly unrealistic presentations.
If i see what some people present on the market from so called real war time collors i feel not good.as long it sells its good ….
The main remark about this project i have is that it has been stripped from its Original items to have an incompleet left over bodywork with tracks and wheels and there the train stops .anyway it looks like its a typical "belgian problem(some other european countries are more advanced in their way of saving their patrimonium) despide solutions are there
cheers
phil

[cossack1648]

Not my business, but I don't think it is a good idea to separate that Panther with its engine and gearbox. If any historical group gets separated it will rarely be reunited in the future. For now they are only interested in a cosmetic restoration, but in the future maybe there will arise circumstances for it to get completely restored into running condition. When and assuming if that ever happens, tank will be missing its vital components, because they were sold today.


I can't understand that rich European Western country can't (or maybe doesn't want to) find the money to restore a rare artifact of its past. Politics as always.

Jack

[dflament]

Most European countries can't even find the money to pay the pensions, health care, fight poverty, etc... They don't care about some German tank in a town square.

[cossack1648]

Most European countries can't even find the money to pay the pensions, health care, fight poverty, etc... They don't care about some German tank in a town square.

Maybe if they manage it better they would, but WAF is not a place to discuss it. That's a political subject.
We can only hope that people who are in charge of that tank and its restoration will do their best within their possibilities to preserve it for the future and minimize its deterioration.

Jack