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Last edited by adren; 06-17-2013, 08:41 AM. -
gau
Would it be possible to compare the measurements of yours with a known example- say the one from Erich?
cheers
MattComment
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Here's the best I got with my measure roll:
The bottom picture is off by about 2 millimeters, because the medal has on outer rim that I could not capture in the picture, so it is 4 - 4,1 cm if included the rim.
The badge is not totally straight in the lower picture but tilted to upper side.
You can see the rim in the upper picture.
Best Regards,
AdrenComment
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123Comment
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Guys:
Since my name has come up, I feel duty bound to make a reply. If these Thuring Gau Badges are fakes, why has it taken all these years for this discovery to be made?
Our fellow member Matthew is a serious collector, and his imput is to be respected.
However, this thread could be the beginning of a collector myth, that takes on a life of its own. I have seen several myths that are propagated by WAF members, and even though repeated demands are made for evidence to support the opinon that such and such a badge is a reproduction, such evidence is never forth coming.
I sold Adren the badge that he posted. I sold this badge in good faith, believing then, and now that it was and is an original.
Some of the collector myths without supporting evidence, are the so-called "Austrian" Fuess Gold Party Badge. The HJ Distinguished Foreigner Badge with maker marks, come to mind.
If these Thuringen Gau Badges are indeed fakes, as I have demanded over and over again, "where are the others?" Militaria shows such as the MAX and the SOS would be flooded with them. No faker is going to go to the expense and trouble to make these dies, and not keep pumping them out not only to remake their expenses, but to make a profit. We do not see these shows flooded with the alleged fake GPB or the fake HJ badge.
Yet, all it takes is one serious collector to voice concerns, and lemming like, many members lock step behind, and adopt this "opinion" that the badge in question, in this case the Thuringen Gau, is a fake.
Matthew, please provide us with hard evidence that these badges are castings and are reproductions.
GaryComment
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An interesting thread Matthew but I don't think we want to get too carried away. All originals have tooling marks on the bottom edge around the 800 marking like on my example. Here are more close ups of my cased badge to compare.Comment
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one moreComment
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One other difference between my example and the other is that the F and U touch on my badge where there is a space between the letters on the other posted silver badge.
In fact, there is much more spacing of the lettering on the posted example then on mine. Also, the lettering style seems different as well for example the letter R in the word Fur.Last edited by ErichS; 06-17-2013, 05:18 PM.Comment
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Gau Thuringen
If a faker is smart he/she is not going to pump them out saturating the market and make it obvious they're everywhere. Furthermore he/she does not need to recuperate any costs if he casts the badges (no dies needed). Want proof? Try and find newest cast fakes of Gau Danzig. You might find 1 or 2 at the most but does that mean they're not fakes? Compare the characteristics with a known original.Originally posted by Gary Symonds View Post
If you have Craig's book look at the Gold version of the badge in question. Blob in the middle of swastica, rip on the side of the eagle's , numbered....22. With a strange spot immediately in front of the digits. Finally look at the dots between NSDAP. With Craig's permission I would love to present the pics here but knowing that a lot of work went into his book I can't just disregard his copyrights even if its in the best interest of collectors.
You are in a position to provide the proof they're good as you have your 222 in your possession. Check the measurements and let's compare those with Adren's example and few more. Cast typically shrinks the measurement by about 5% so that should be enough error margin to tell the difference.
Thanks for your assistance Gentlemen.
cheers
Matt
P.S.
Austrian fake GPBs are not really considered collecting 'myths'. They are fakes.Last edited by Matthew; 06-17-2013, 08:02 PM.Comment
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I don't understand? Carried away? I'm about to drop couple of K's on a chunk of silver I want to make sure it is what its advertised to be. I'm not buying for silver content after all. Thought it would be in every collectors best interest.Originally posted by ErichS View Post
Yes all originals have tooling marks but what about them? I never said they're missing or that some do not have them. Was rather hoping for accurate measurements to put this one to bed either way. Can you help with those?
cheers
MattComment
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Matthew,
Thought you were just doing a study on these badges and didn't realize you were in the market for one.
ErichComment
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I just purchased one and in the time it takes for it to get here I am hoping to line up as much info as I can so I know what I am looking for when I have it in hand.
Mine is stamped 426 and I understand those numbers are attributable now. I am yet to learn the name of the recipient.Comment
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Matthew:Originally posted by Matthew View Post
When you have #426 in hand, how about some good closeup pictures, and measurements?
GaryComment
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Absolutely.Comment
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Gentlemen, we are all here to learn and sharing information is the best way to do it. I've found that threads such as these, provide information that is a learning experience for all. Nothing can deem an object fake or genuine with 100% certainty but for a few absolutes such as period photos or iron clad provenance. From the iron clad, we can then use this information to accurately assess what comes along later. Unfortunately there will always be those items that can never be proven to be either fake or genuine and which will always remain a mystery. Those are the objects with which the owner needs to have their own level of comfort.
I've learned much from this forum and anticipate I will learn much more. Any and all input is appreciated and it is just natural that at some point, someone will become defensive if research leans toward proving their item as questionable. Let's try to gather and use as much information as we can to be able to state certain items are unquestionable. Some other items may never achieve that status, but still may not be able to be deemed fakes.
Richard VComment
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