Need help with 25 year NSDAP medal

[Brian S]

Flaw? Good ID mark for these?

[Stan]

25 Yr NSDAP Cross

Brian,

Thanks for your pm. I am pleased that you sent it otherwise I might have missed this renewed thread.

Yes, the eagle does have a flaw at the top of the left wing. Well spotted! I am pretty sure that collectors who consider that only crosses which were mm'd "19" are authentic, are mistaken. IMO there was more than one maker of these crosses and my cross is an example of another maker's product.

Stan

[Brian S]

Brian,

Thanks for your pm. I am pleased that you sent it otherwise I might have missed this renewed thread.

Yes, the eagle does have a flaw at the top of the left wing. Well spotted! I am pretty sure that collectors who consider that only crosses which were mm'd "19" are authentic, are mistaken. IMO there was more than one maker of these crosses and my cross is an example of another maker's product.

Stan

Yes, it is certainly authentic given the provenance. Can you post a clear scan of the eagle?

Wish we had more examples of his collection to post. They would all be the gold standard. Remember in the late 60's authentic RKs were going for a pittance. So to put it all in perspective, it would be nonsense to assume these two gentleman were buying fakes from vets. A genuine NSDAP 25 from Dodkins in the late 60's was probably was no more than a hundred bucks or less.

[WARLORD]

As an aside, these 25 year cross's were indeed made by diferent makers. More were made than awarded. They are found in both thin and thick types. This alone shows diferent makers and dies. Added to this there are three different ribbon typs found. As to the Dodkins collection, much is in private collections, but the most photos came from David Littlejohns collection. Unfortunatly he died last year. But I was extreemly lucky to obtain the compleat collection, plus his purchases ledger and his research material together with all the manuscripts to his published books and those in work. These pieces were obtained directly after the war, many are shown in Dr K book published in 1957.This is a wealth of information and a brick libary for future research.

One other point, this made by CurtD, "And as much as I respect Detlev, the 8 year SS award in his latest book is a well-known fake". I have to strongly disagree with this, this medal is the extreemly rare first type. Again from the Littlejohn collection is a bar with such piece on it. This bare was purchased 1950.Much of this has been shown on another forum, under a collection of awards. I hope this has been of interest and might help, even if it only opens debate.

[Stan]

25 Yr NSDAP Cross

[QUOTE=Brian S;1701727]Yes, it is certainly authentic given the provenance. Can you post a clear scan of the eagle?

Brian,

Here is a shot of the flaw on the eagles wing.

Stan

[WARLORD]

To give a little more info, the 25 year cross illistrated in Orders, Decorations, Medals and Badges of the Third Rich, by David Littlejohn and Col C.M. Dodkins on page 70 at the bottom, is indeed a thin one with the fault on the Eagles wing. It was purchased in early 1952 and is No 67 in his ledger. There is an ultra light version, the ring is marked with 19 in a square box, and a very heavy version this also shows the die fault on the Eagles wing. I have four examples and it is from these I have made the description. Two of the with 19 in a square box, one is cased, both have varriation ribbons.

[CurtD]

One other point, this made by CurtD, "And as much as I respect Detlev, the 8 year SS award in his latest book is a well-known fake". I have to strongly disagree with this, this medal is the extreemly rare first type. Again from the Littlejohn collection is a bar with such piece on it. This bare was purchased 1950.Much of this has been shown on another forum, under a collection of awards. I hope this has been of interest and might help, even if it only opens debate.

I would love to see this thread. Can you please provide a link?

[Brian S]

Kurt and Warlord, thank you! This was a huge discovery that I'm glad didn't go overlooked.

Buried as it is here, this is a discovery and new oneon this forum.

[Brian S]

The eagle looks hand finished. I also imagine the gilting could to some degree have an effect on the appearance of the flaw.

Any better photos either of you could do of this detail would be appreciated. This is the one I am going to go after now.

[Bob Hritz]

Here is a heavy version with the same die flaw in the eagle's wing. It is a vet purchase. In all the years I have tracked vets, this is the only one I have found. I would love to have the thin version by MM 19 to have both types.

Bob Hritz

[Bob Hritz]

Detail

[Bob Hritz]

Verso. You will notice the wreathe is slightly off center. i wondered if it was acceptable or a reject, left at the factory.

Bob Hritz

[Bob Hritz]

Somewhere, I have an old Souval copy. I will find it and post photos, ASAP.

Bob Hritz

[WARLORD]

The heavy type shown by Bob is the same as the heavy example I have. However the wreath is not off center. If I come across anothe mm19, it shall be yours Bob.

[Bob Hritz]

After several hours of thrashing around my 'mistakes boxes', I have found the old copy of the NSDAP 25 year medal.

Bob Hritz