A couple of Cultural items

[Steve T]

1937 Eagle

Something more elaborate - 1937 Adler

[Steve T]

Nice candle holder, TR, period picture.

[Capt. R]

thanks for the images, Steve.

Your comments are spot on. There is nothing wrong with selling items from a collection. But when one's whole mode of operation is to buy stuff from estate sales/yard sales on the cheap and then quickly flip for a profit to unsuspecting buyers who actually are sincere in their interest of history and period relics, we have a big problem.

If some of this stuff was not presented as definitively ss, and then quickly sold on the estand, the whole discussion would be less poisoned. We have reached a point where if things are not regularly challenged, then we have created a e-reference book of junk that in later years may be accepted as historical fact.

Those who are sincere in historical scholarship must separate the fact from fiction, especially when it is presented as absolute truth, when it clearly is not. At best it can be classified as "likely" or "probable" or somewhere in between the definite and the doubtful as "possible." If more things were shown and the question asked, "Could this be TR period? or ss perhaps?" this thread would be more interesting. At least then there would be some healthy debate instead of a lecture.

When we get a feeling that the ONLY reason something is shown, hyped, and marketed, is to sell it for a profit, it greatly diminishes the credibility of the poster and calls into question his motives for showing that item in the first place - which would be otherwise intrigueing. It simply leaves everyone with a bad taste in their mouths for cultural items.

Gaston's comments are equally valid and welcomed. I guess not everyone is asleep around here.

[Michael Fay]

devil in the detail

...so its quite expected that a lot of the things shown here are not SS/NS or maybe even nothing to do with the TR period, they are often posted just to discuss, gather opinion and these posts are welcomed by me.... .

If this was how this thread was in truth, then they would be welcome by me too.
However, you have succeeded in completely misrepresenting the problem on this thread. The problem is that someone habitually claims things as being SS... without any evidence.
And then trys to sell them as if vetted here as SS.
All it takes is our collective silence or blind eye.

[Michael Fay]

N.S.Rechtswahrerbundes

[QUOTE=Thorsten B.;5179251"BUT, as a matter of fact, I do know who the thing was for.And have better evidence than you seem able to make up as you go."

Do tell.[/QUOTE]

Your candle holder is proclaiming loudly (from the main insignia ) that it was associated with an entity that worked within legal and jurisprudence matters.

In fact, it was most likely the: N.S. Rechtswaherbundes
Literal English trans: N.S. Right True Association

which even ties in nicely the " Sei Getreu" with the "wahrer" roughly being translated as "true."

Please see my next post to compare symbols for my EVIDENCE.

[Michael Fay]

N.S. Rechtswaherbundes

Chief Law Section in the NSDAP Leadership Legal Department

related groups would be: Justice Ministers
Legal departments
Academy for German law
etc.


So your candle holder is not astrological, nor SS.

And it is also Christian.

Hope this helps you.

[Steve T]

If this was how this thread was in truth, then they would be welcome by me too.
However, you have succeeded in completely misrepresenting the problem on this thread. The problem is that someone habitually claims things as being SS... without any evidence.
And then trys to sell them as if vetted here as SS.
All it takes is our collective silence or blind eye.

I've not misrepresented anything at all. From my comment its clear to me I'm commenting at the whole thread and there's lots of good material presented by many contributors. Generally its a good thread.

As far as a pseudo vetting, it's better to have an opportunity to put forth an argument against an item than someone just buy an item off E-stand and it disappears before you even notice. If the piece wasn't presented here you may not have had your opportunity to put forth your argument against it.

[Michael Fay]

I've not misrepresented anything at all. From my comment its clear to me I'm commenting at the whole thread and there's lots of good material presented by many contributors. Generally its a good thread.

As far as a pseudo vetting, it's better to have an opportunity to put forth an argument against an item than someone just buy an item off E-stand and it disappears before you even notice. If the piece wasn't presented here you may not have had your opportunity to put forth your argument against it.

Then we disagree.
This "opportunity to put forth arguements against" misrepresented pieces as being SS is not working. This thread has been thoroughly discredited.

[Steve T]

Then we disagree.
This "opportunity to put forth arguements against" misrepresented pieces as being SS is not working. This thread has been thoroughly discredited.

You used the opportunity presented and put forth your argument, I don't see that as not working and I cannot see how the whole thread is discredited, so fair enough, whilst I respect your above opinon, we do disagree.

[Thälmannpionier]

N.S. Rechtswaherbundes

Chief Law Section in the NSDAP Leadership Legal Department

related groups would be: Justice Ministers
Legal departments
Academy for German law
etc.


So your candle holder is not astrological, nor SS.

And it is also Christian.

Hope this helps you.

Hi Michael

First thing that came to mind when i saw that candle holder was also
Something that has to do with Justicia etc..

Now have a look here:
http://ftec.cfasp.de/tvb-buch/Buch_das_signet.htm

The coat of Arms of the town Breckenheim looks similar to the one on
the candle holder...this coat of arm was introduced 1956 ...that would mean the sloppy scratched in 1942 and runes and so on,were applied later...makes me NOT wonder anymore ....but Thorsten will tell us
better I guess..

and with with the christian Cross on the very top of the Candle Holder...
"Sei Getreu...bis an den Tod so will ich dir die Krone des Lebens geben" (Offenbarung 2, 10 )
http://www.gottesbotschaft.de/?pg=2700

[Thorsten B.]

Thank you for sharing your opinions.

My birthday candleholder does not suit your taste?

Well, it does not have to - I discovered it, I bought it, I own it - and I love it.


And I brought forward my arguments based on historical sources like the SS Family book while all my usual opponents share some kind of...let´s say...opinions.

[jabnus]

Dear Thorsten,

Im always looking on the forums to learn more, by searching for cultural items i just discovered this topic:

CLICK

It is a very nice cultural candleholder.

Can you please tell why this is called a:

NS / SS wrought iron wall candleholder

and

..., which symbolizes the Reich getting back to it´s pagan roots and by doing so becoming strong and resistent again against foreign cultural influences.

In my very humble opionion this is "just" one of the numerous cultural items as are illustrated many hundreds of times in period magaines? My grandmother used to have a candleholder like this in her kitchen, it belonged long before her birth to her parents and dated back to before 1900.

best regards,
Gaston

[Thorsten B.]

Dear Gaston,

Thank you for your interest in cultural pieces.

Although you unfortunately discovered this one too late since it is already on the way to the lucky buyer who is looking forward to receive it the answer to all of your questions is directly woven into this cultural thread.

It is a fascinating aspect of collecting and one can never gather enough knowledge and experience in regards to these cultural gems - but we also sometimes have to come to the conclusion that there will not be just one opinion and we will have to agree to disagree.

I posted pics of my SS Family chest and there are some people who believe that for example the carved runes on it must have or look like being applied later to the piece - how they come to such conclusions without ever having seen and examined the piece in person is a mystic secret to me but that is how life can be.

I posted pics of a masterpiece of candleholder and one wants to believe that it must be from the NS-Rechtswahrerbund - well, good for him then.

And if people might be just jealous because I do not only offer pieces out of my collection from time to time but they also do sell, well, that is their personal problem.

[Thorsten B.]

Let me give you a practical example - here is a picture of another cultural candleholder:

It is described as: "Handgeschmiedeter eiserner Leuchter" (= wrought iron candleholder) for 18 Reichsmark (RM).

Could be very well made - judged by the pic alone - way before 1900 and inherited as one another piece in daily use in Grandma´s household.

Do we really know the reasons why the piece was contructed the way it is?

Does the piece speak to us?

If so - do we understand it´s language?

Do we get any hints that it might be from 1800, 1900 or from the period and even an NS / SS cultural piece?


In other words:

Would anybody believe me if I say so and would put the piece in the E-stand and offer it as an NS / SS cultural piece?

What would You say by looking at it?

Could you please share your personal thoughts and impressions?

Thank you in advance for your answer regarding this matter.

It will help us to have a fruit- and senseful discussion.

[Thorsten B.]

Dear Gaston,

Maybe you still need some time to read this entire thread and find the appropriate comments and parts of shared knowledge, impressions and personal opinions.

I am patient and will wait for your answer regarding this matter.