Combined P/O with Diamonds, GFM Sperrle

[Sal Williams]

Sal...have you had a chance to study the pictures on the H Historica site ?

This piece comes in a case with the makers name and mark of

"DGW - Deutsche Goldschmiedekunst-Werkstätten Berlin-W."

Now how about that !

You will have to educate me on this Chris, I dont get to play in such a high end field so I don't understand the significance of the maker.

best, Sal

[Sal Williams]

The badge just does not warm my heart, as it should.

Bob Hritz

What about it do you not like Bob?

Best, Sal

[Bob Hritz]

Color of the gold is funny, the lack of the shape depth on the edges of the wreath (too smooth), overall does not look like the originals I have seen.

I understand that there are different 'versions' of the diamonds badges, but I would want another badge, not this one. I cannot say it is not correct, but do not like it and would not want this badge. I guess it is more of a instinctive feeling from first look than any depth of study I have done.

Go back to Dietrich's thread on the Diamonds Award and look at the other posted examples. I prefer the first one posted, in Dietrich's thread, to the alledged Spearle badge.

The auction house that offers the badge does not instill confidence either.

However, I have little doubt that it will sell and the new owner will be tickled pink.

Bob Hritz

[Mike TM]

We will know on three days, if HH sells the piece or not. And the final price.
Mike

[ChrisJ]

You will have to educate me on this Chris, I dont get to play in such a high end field so I don't understand the significance of the maker.

best, Sal

Well Sal, there has been a lot of speculation over the years as to who made these...and a certain amount of disinformation.

Old W C Stump was convinced that they were made in Berlin, and I feel that most players in this end of the collecting field who have looked closely at this badge are of the same opinion. You will be aware that most collectors of the high end stuff refrain from posting details or back-up data on on-line forums (sad but true). Much information is just not available for open discussion.

There was a train of opinion based on a reported conversation that they were made in Stubiger of Vienna...but that never really ran true for me.

The significance of this particular piece is in the case...and the makers mark there on. It adds major credence to the Berlin connection.

Regarding the badge....From my investigtions I believe that there were three distinct versions of this award. They are all different in small ways, but basically they fall into three types (I'm talking about the award piece). The version posted by Dietrich that belonged to Hartman is the later (last) type produced....although earlier versions were still being presented concurently (there was a "handback" policy...but how serious this was is questionable). This type is an earlier version than Hartman's in my opinion. If this was Sperrle's awarded piece, then it puts it in the 1st type category (Sperrle was a recipient in 1937, two years after inception). There are views that this type was the second version.

Ref your comments Bob...I hear what you are saying, but from experience I know that this badge is notoriously difficult to capture by digital camera. Everything that I am seeing on the pictures posted in the auction catalogue spell original to me. This badge will sell for sure...and I'd guess that the "knock down" will be well above the 65,000 Euros start.

Anyone who has handled one of these will be knocked out by the quality, I guarantee....as I know that you have, Bob...and digital pictures mostly just dont "get there."

Originals are all slightly different...as the pieces were largely a hand crafted affair. Depending on type, white gold or platinum was used for the eagles (front) and yellow gold or white gold for the reverse frame...and probably platinum too, but I cant be sure of that.

Lastly, fakes of this form of the badge do exist...I've seen none to date that get "anywhere near."

There is a lot that we have to learn...but often the truth is less complicated than we imagine.

[ChrisJ]

....

[Sal Williams]

Thank you Bob and Chris for both your well thought out replies. I apperciate it very much!

Best Sal

[Kevin V.]

Thanks for sharing this info. Maybe in the future I would like to purchase an item like this so every info I can get is highly appreciated.

Sincerely

[Sal Williams]

So few comments about this, I am surprised. I was hoping those who have dealt with these before would share thier thoughts.

[Robin Lumsden]

Well, unlike others here, I have not studied diamond badges in any detail.

All I can say is that I saw this badge at the auctioneer's last week and the quality and finish were absolutely superb. Much better than the photos suggest. The thing was far superior to anything in the high end jewellers' windows on the Maximilianstrasse.

[Stan]

Pilot/Observer badge with Diamonds

What I think is very significant is that the the Sperrle and Harlinghausen awards both came in presentation cases marked "Deutsche Goldsmiedekunst-Werkstaetten Berlin-W".

For many years we were told that Stuebbiger of Vienna was the sole manufacturer of both the "presentation" and "IMIT" pieces. This information would now appear to be incorrect.

Stan

[Robin Lumsden]

...... "IMIT" pieces...
Stan

Stan.

I always thought that the "IMIT" ones came from Ken Lane.

[Stan]

Stan.

I always thought that the "IMIT" ones came from Ken Lane.

Well I certainly hope you're wrong!

Stan

[Kevin V.]

Stan.

I always thought that the "IMIT" ones came from Ken Lane.

Who is Ken Lane if I may ask?
Thanks

[Stan]

Who is Ken Lane if I may ask?
Thanks

Ken Lane was a supplier of fakes in the 1960's. His address was in Italy.

I have just gone through the price list he sent me in 1967 and no Pilot Observer's Badges with diamonds listed.

Robin, many known original examples of the IMIT badges exist as well as many known fake examples also marked IMIT.

Stan