S&L Para Badge - Opinions Please!

[Frank Heukemes]

obverse

[Frank Heukemes]

here is one in better condition (was my badge, now Jürg Herzig collection)

[Frank Heukemes]

obv

[Frank Heukemes]

Here is one with the classic S&L setup, compare GABs and PABs formerly known as "Zimmermann" or "Juncker".

(Willy Zahn collection)

[Frank Heukemes]

o

[Frank Heukemes]

another from an online auction, years ago. These are not recent badges and appearances.

[Frank Heukemes]

with Cupal eagle (Skip's collection)

[Frank Heukemes]

obv

[Frank Heukemes]

I hear the question "and what would a late war Juncker para look like, why are these not Juncker?"

Here is a late war Juncker (stdubay collection). It is, quite logically, the same in design as a Tombak Juncker para only in zinc and with "zinc badge style setup:

[Frank Heukemes]

obverse shot

[Jos L C]

I've no problems with the badge..,shows good features..
First one I see though..

S&L did make the early Luftwaffe drooptail Summer eagle..,so why not a parabadge or other luftbadges ?


Here's the Summer eagle with same logo..,super quality.
Also the one and only I've seen sofar

Jos.

[Jos L C]

..

[Gerd W.]

I do not know in which direction your question goes:

b) have I ever seen it on a badge?

Answers:

b) No

That was the questions intention Frank To your book series: I wait for the ultimative para badge one (volume 3 or 4????)

Nice line up............. I agree 100% that the late war Juncker should look like your last picture (another hook is possible in that case)

To rest.....I realy dono what to say, all what you******180;ve told us is convincing of course....but..... saw them with a 2 on the wreath, L56, 5 or was it 7....now with the S&L logo.........in cupal, hollow, zink.......... Looks like, that S&L was busy around at that time...Just waiting for a 4, L/16, RZM or St. u. L. marked one.

Is it me, the odd golden finish (refurbished??) or does the Toby******180;s eagle lacks some detail? The wreath looks indeed fine.........

Anyway there are more and other para badge variants out there, I******180;m sure about.

Feel sorry for, but I think, I don******180;t like this special badge very much .

[mmiller]

I'm still waking up, so I'm still in a haze.

Maybe I missed something, but are we starting to attribute and categorize badges now, based more on the type of hardware found on the back? The trend used to be to amass a representative 'sample' of like non maker marked badges, with matching die characteristics, and proceed from that point toward the 'who might have made it' direction. Are we now shifting gears and looking for a 'common hardware' starting point? Maybe I have just over- simplified the explanations...

As long as I can remember, it has been common lure that 3R badge manufacturers shared common attachment hardware, ie. - hinges, pins, and catches. It has been assumed that many companies purchased this rear hardware from smaller, local or regional specialist sub-contractors. I guess it is safe to say that larger badge manufacturers may have produced their own hardware.

That assumed, as far back as I can remember, 'we' collectors never attributed much provinance to what hardware was on the back of a badge. I'm not saying that a high seas fleet badge by Schwerin can have a Juncker style pilot badge barrel hinge. Don't get me wrong. All I'm saying is that there was reasonable latitude as to what one would/ could expect to see on the reverse of a badge..... expecially the mid to late war zinkers.

If you are with me so far, then please follow.

Am I correct in saying that we see the same type of flat wire catch, mounted on a long ovular plate, on Juncker badges, Zimmermann badges, and S&L badges? (I don't memorize all the 'accepted patterns' here as well as some, so maybe I misunderstand.) If we do, then, if we are dealing with late war zinkers sans makermark badges, then how do we make the leap of faith to attribute a badge (with the same catch as used by multiple firms) to a particular company?

I'm sure I am simplifying the 'theorm', but the simpler the answer, the more plausable the palletability.

And yes Frank.... this 'shell' is probably being fired in your direction!!! So I'll be expecting a return volley from the 88s!

Best Regards,
Mark

[mmiller]

Looking at Toby's #2 rear image, there appears to be some metal distessing around the makermark. Could have happened 'from the factory' or from a later-on 'agressively' applied makermark application... either way. But when I look at the recesses of the makermark, the finish appears to be much shinier than the rest of the eagle, which would indicate, at least to me, the possiblity of a later-on applied makermark. Applied later-on would certainly explain the brighter (underneath & authentic) hues of the makermark.

And while makermarks from the same manufacturer did vary throughout the war, the S&L mark on Jos' eagle is much more detailed and convincing, than the mark on the para from Toby.

Just my thoughts...

Mark


TOBY MM:


JOS MM: