S&L Para Badge - Opinions Please!

[TobyR]

mm:

[TobyR]

Catch:

[TobyR]

Catch on the first badge:

[Frank Heukemes]

@Alan: There is a good possibility the ground combat badge was made by S&L, but it could also be made by Juncker. I will look into this deeper at another time and when I get the chance to handle one.

@Toby: Needless to repeat myself. In my opinion, another original badge. I would add it to my collection any day.

[Gerd W.]

Philippe, good words

Now we have 2 of them...........

Frank, are there any pictures in your files for a good compare of fake (Haas &Co) and the S&L related ones? Maybe I´ll get the point here, when I see them side by side.

[Philippe DB]

Hi Toby,


Well I didn't know you had two of these badges. Can you tell us anything about the circumstances of there discovery? I assume you found them together.

KR
Philippe

[TobyR]

Hi Philippe,

They are both part of a collection, acquired over the last 10 years, that was consigned to me recently. The other badges that I posted on the forum recently (Meybauer, Osang, GWL, Assmann) are also part of this collection.

Best,
Toby.

[Frank Heukemes]

@Gerd: I will try and handle a few of these fakes you mention at the Kassel show and report back to this thread.

[Stijn David]

the maker mark

hello,


The maker mark found on the para badge is a original wartime maker mark IMHO.

I have had contact with S & L and this is their answer

" auf Ihrem zugesandten Abdruck ist unser Firmenzeichen wiedergegeben. Scheinbar handelt es sich um eine rückseitige Punzierung, die wir aber seit Jahrzehnten so nicht mehr verwenden.

Nachforschungen in unserem Archiv sind ergebnislos verlaufen, so daß uns
weder eine zeitliche als auch sonstige Zuordnung möglich ist. Nach unserer

Einschätzung muß die Verwendungsweise mindestens sechzig bis siebzig Jahre zurückliegen. "

I think a native speaking Englisch person can translate this 100 % correct. It is certain for me that this is a wartime S & L product as when we do count back => 60 towards 70 years back from today :

2005 - 60 years = 1945
2005 - 70 years = 1935


Cordial greetings + hopefully i was able to help a bit in this discussion.

[robert60446]

hello,


The maker mark found on the para badge is a original wartime maker mark IMHO.

I have had contact with S & L and this is their answer

" auf Ihrem zugesandten Abdruck ist unser Firmenzeichen wiedergegeben. Scheinbar handelt es sich um eine rückseitige Punzierung, die wir aber seit Jahrzehnten so nicht mehr verwenden.

Nachforschungen in unserem Archiv sind ergebnislos verlaufen, so daß uns
weder eine zeitliche als auch sonstige Zuordnung möglich ist. Nach unserer

Einschätzung muß die Verwendungsweise mindestens sechzig bis siebzig Jahre zurückliegen. "

I think a native speaking Englisch person can translate this 100 % correct. It is certain for me that this is a wartime S & L product as when we do count back => 60 towards 70 years back from today :

2005 - 60 years = 1945
2005 - 70 years = 1935


Cordial greetings + hopefully i was able to help a bit in this discussion.

Excellent job! Thanks for your help.

[Frank Heukemes]

I have heard that the two badges did in the meantime go into two collections where they will lead a good life.

[TobyR]

... hopefully i was able to help a bit in this discussion.

Thank You Stijn for your research.

Best,
Toby.

[Frank Heukemes]

Yes, I forgot that too, "thank you Stijn". But statements by S&L cannot be trusted 100%. Even if they WOULD have produced it past 45 (which I doubt) they would never admit it, because it would be against German law. In this case, (as in many other S&L raletd requests directly posted to them) I guess it is more a case of "we have no clue". The current S&L staff and management does not know about these things. They are mere businessmen and the history of their company holds little value to them, especially the one in between the years of 33-45.

[Stijn David]

no need to thank

Hi,


No need to thank me at all, it is a pleasure to share.

" But statements by S&L cannot be trusted 100%. Even if they WOULD have produced it past 45 (which I doubt) they would never admit it, because it would be against German law. In this case, (as in many other S&L raletd requests directly posted to them) I guess it is more a case of "we have no clue". The current S&L staff and management does not know about these things. They are mere businessmen and the history of their company holds little value to them, especially the one in between the years of 33-45."

I agree towards a certain degree with what you say Frank, but iff we do not trust their (S & L) statement then we can't simply trust any statement from former German producers. We must be consequent on this.

just my 2 cents.

Cordial greetings, <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[mmiller]

Thanks also Stijn,

Still watching this thread. I agree Frank, the reply from S&L was pretty generic. In their date estimate, they may have just been saying 'well it looks like a WW2 product' and then threw out the generic dates to cover that period, dancing carefully to not say the N(azi) word. Personally, I have no problem with the S&L stamp that Jos posted way back in the Thread. It was on a Luft Breast eagle.

The one on the Paras is similar. And yes I know that S&L could have had two stamps, but that still does not convince me.

I think we are all still waiting for images of the currently available fakes. If someone wants to pay my airfare to Frankfurt, I'll be more than happy to visit the flaumarkts!

Regards, And Just Playing the Role of the Sceptic!!!
Mark