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Kriegsmarine Watch Officer Badge (Abzeichen des Wachhabenden Offiziers)

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    #76
    ........

    Well, the badge arrived today. There are a couple of areas where the copper is peaking through so hopefully a nice Tombak wartime piece. But as always, opinions appreciated.
    Attached Files

    Comment

      #77
      I like it Peter. It definitely has a different look from the post-war Assmann badges. For what purpose are those round "rivets" in the upper main pin?

      Best regards,
      ---Norm

      Comment

        #78
        .....

        Originally posted by Norm F View Post
        I like it Peter. It definitely has a different look from the post-war Assmann badges. For what purpose are those round "rivets" in the upper main pin?

        Best regards,
        ---Norm
        Hi Norm...interesting point. There's a equal sized prong (compared to the lower 2 prongs) behind the main pin where the main pin is riveted to it. I wonder if this was attached at the manufacturing stage or at a later stage.

        I'll try and take a photo tomorrow...

        Comment

          #79
          I'd guess it was originally made with 3 small, equal length prongs (for whatever reason - armband use of simplt manufacturers variation) but the wearers soon figured out what a pain in the butt it was at handover time and had the top prong converted to a more convention long-prong setup to more easily slip onto a uniform.

          Regards
          Mike
          Regards
          Mike

          Evaluate the item, not the story and not the seller's reputation!

          If you PM/contact me without the courtesy of using your first name, please don't be offended if I politely ignore you!

          Comment

            #80
            .....

            Sounds plausible Mike. So an original variant (hopefully) converted into a more traditional style of atttachment.

            Comment

              #81
              I favour the idea of originally being the armband version but converted for lapel or pocket wear, possibly in the factory on order by the KM since it has the same look and finish? Anyway, it has great character.

              Best regards,
              ---Norm

              Comment

                #82
                I present my recent arrival .... with plenty of wear but very nice.

                Greetings from Madrid.

                Julio.

                Comment

                  #83
                  I don't know if these pictures help any, but I got the camera out for a shot of the reverse of the three prong version.
                  Attached Files

                  Comment

                    #84
                    U 861., Kiel 20.09.1943.

                    Left to Right.

                    O.Masch. (Diesel) Karl Fink.
                    L.Ing. Herbert Panknin.
                    O.Masch. (Elektro) Hans Bandy (with watch officer badge).







                    yours friendly

                    Eric-Jan

                    Comment

                      #85
                      Great photo.

                      A question, an obermaat had the responsibility of an officer?

                      Greetings from Madrid.

                      Julio.

                      Originally posted by Eric-Jan Bakker View Post
                      U 861., Kiel 20.09.1943.

                      Left to Right.

                      O.Masch. (Diesel) Karl Fink.
                      L.Ing. Herbert Panknin.
                      O.Masch. (Elektro) Hans Bandy (with watch officer badge).







                      yours friendly

                      Eric-Jan

                      Comment

                        #86
                        I am sure a petty officer could wear the badge since I have seen photos of them wearing it.

                        The badge does not designate a rank although it is an "officer of the day" badge. Officer in this sense means a position, not a rank.

                        So you might have 3 or 4 duty shifts and depending on the unit or ship, that shift duty officer might be of any rank as long as qualified to do the job of "officer of the day".

                        There probably was a single officer over all the duty officers that they reported to.

                        Another example might be "engineer officer of the watch" which might be a senior petty officer, not just an engineer officer. In those days, most ships steamed alongside the pier to keep power up, so there would be an engineer duty officer also as long as any boilers or engines were on line.

                        So do not get confused with the word "officer" and the rank of officer.

                        In the US Navy, the Officer of the Day inport can and is a petty officer or junior officer while above them is a "Senior Watch Officer" or "Command Duty Officer". I am sure it worked the same in the German Navy.

                        Even underway, the "Officer of the Deck" might not be an officer, although it usually is. A senior Chief Petty Officer might be in that job, normally a Quartermaster Chief though. In that case, the officer over everybody is normally called the "Tactical Watch Officer", usually a department head, like the Weapons Officer.

                        In the case of the Officer of the Deck, if you are just steaming through the ocean, less experienced officers might have the deck and if they join up with other ships, like a carrier formation, higher qualified "Fleet Officers of the Deck " take over, same as what happens when the ship goes to General Quarters.

                        In tricky situations of navigation and seamanship, the Executive Officer might take over as Officer of the Deck and in all cases the Captain would be present on the bridge, or if already there, he might call for his most experienced officer to come up and relieve the Officer of the Deck if he thinks it is prudent.

                        John
                        Last edited by John R.; 01-17-2012, 12:11 PM.

                        Comment

                          #87
                          Hi John,

                          A very interesting explanation.

                          Thank you very much.

                          Here in Spain in the Air Force (this is where I served) happens something like this:

                          Senior NCOs are also eligible for services are Officer Week.

                          Julio.

                          Comment

                            #88
                            Originally posted by JCM - 1963 View Post
                            Great photo.

                            A question, an obermaat had the responsibility of an officer?

                            Greetings from Madrid.

                            Julio.
                            Just to add to John's excellent answer, the Watch Officer in the picture shows an Obermaschinist, that is at the Oberfeldwebel rank (senior petty officer) not an Obermaat (junior petty officer). John's answer likewise refers to senior petty officers. I don't think I've yet seen any photo of a junior petty officer wearing the badge?

                            My Dad was a Wachoffizier at times both at the Feldwebel rank and the Leutnant rank.

                            Best regards,
                            ---Norm

                            Comment

                              #89
                              Originally posted by Norm F View Post
                              ...
                              I don't think I've yet seen any photo of a junior petty officer wearing the badge?
                              I take it back. John already posted a photo of one earlier in this thread! So there we go, an Obermaat could indeed be Wachoffizier, and even a Maat as shown in this photo. Any Unteroffizier (with or without Portepee) could qualify.
                              Attached Files
                              Last edited by Norm F; 01-17-2012, 12:56 PM.

                              Comment

                                #90
                                Yes, that is my photo. Crew size and composition determines who stands watch and where. As in the photo above, what was important is that the individual in this position, without anybody around of senior rank, could get the vessel ready to fight and in some cases, get the vessel ready to get underway.

                                The most important duty though had to do with firefighting and security of the ship, especially inadvertent flooding--something all too common with ships tied up alongside the pier.

                                John

                                Comment

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