New Addition - Possible maker connection - Rettenmaier = "Flatback" Maker

[Andreas Klein]

Hi Karsten,

i agree but an Iron Cross isn't a good example for homework because what you Show is the soldering together of the rim and inner core and that's for sure needs some skill.

Much more skill than soldering a catch or a hinge on a one piece construction like an IAB for example.

Try to Google the history of the german word "Schwarzarbeit" .... it was used by homeworkers who got black fingers from working with the badges.

[Karsten S]

Hi Andreas,

What makes you say that the soldering of the EK is a much harder task than soldering catches and hinges?
Apart from my degree as a teacher and diploma, I am also an educated "Klempner", and have made several soldering works, from small hinges to lamps, water can´s etc and from my point of view I do not see the big difference in the difficult level.
You also have to concider that the force labours had a life before 1940.

Regarding the Schwarzarbeit, could you please make the link and translate the passage that you say is relevant to this discussion? I will take me much more time, and do not want to risk being lost in translation.

I would be really nice, if you would relate to the questions I ask you in post #202 and #210, since this is part of your arguments.

Thanks

KR

Karsten

[Dietrich Maerz]

.... and have made several soldering works, from small hinges to lamps, water can´s etc and from my point of view I do not see the big difference in the difficult level.

I can only agree with Karsten. Once you got the hang of things, there is no difference at all.

Dietrich

[Andreas Klein]

Hi Dietrich and Karsten,

i can only quote some informations by Rudolf Souval who had only 1 worker to solder the pieces together because an unskillfull worker could be come into trouble with the heat and the black core paint.

@Karsten
I will point Basti to your questions because he has the book about the homeworkes.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Well, all I can say is that then Karsten and myself is also a "geschickte Mann."

I would not discount the possibility that this letter needed a solid and believeable reason for the man not to be drafted to the military. I would not dare to deduce from this letter that exceptional skills were needed to solder the EK1 and only two in the greater Vienna area could be trained to do so.

This was a Freistellungsbrief!

Dietrich

[Andreas Klein]

Well, all I can say is that then Karsten and myself is also a "geschickte Mann."

Fully agreed

No ticket to the eastern front to you ....

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Tom,

The person did not work there during the war, but if any should know, it most be him.
I don´t see any reason for them to hide this info, because as you know, they added the L/59 to our membership pin´s

On the same hand I agree with you, that there should always be the consideration room for error.

Hi Karsten, thanks very much for the followup. I agree, there is no reason I can think of to hide information about a maker mark. Producing items during the war is sure a touchy subject, even 70 years later. But no real problem to identify a simple maker mark and if it was used.

Regarding the soldering, I would agree that it is not difficult to become competent and even master it pretty quickly. I have had experience with soldering small electronics to plumbing pipes and fixtures. A little trial and error at first, but relatively quickly (within the first few attempts, maybe an hour or two at most of trial) and you can become quite proficient at soldering. Not only adequate soldering, but making it look good too, which is almost as important as making the physical connection.

Tom

[Panzercracker]

I used to know a guy who was really into Iron Cross collecting and I'm not going to disclose his name, but he was German. He mentioned a process called "Gablenzing", or atleast that's what I think it was (maybe 20yrs back). Anyway, from what I undersood, the process was unique, and, involved a machine "welding" the two "halves" of the Iron Cross together. As far as welding hardware, maybe a TIG type process was involved on Crosses/badges? Couldn't imagine an "ARC" weld because you'd melt everything, no matter how small or hot you get that flame. The materials are simply too thin. Today, there are laser welds that Jewellers use for welding hardware.

--Rgds, Ken

[Dietrich Maerz]

I think you mix that up with this "Gablonzer Methode"...

[Panzercracker]

Thanks Dietrich. No I didn't mix it up, or atleast give me some credit to my memory. The same guy I just mentioned, also had a website up for a long time, dedicated to the "Iron Cross" and how it was manufactured etc. Anyway, I got out of collecting due to my parents failng health and only got back into it a couple years back. I have to say, it's even more complicated/complex, than I expected because of the various change-ups in dies. Like heck, it's just a hobby...

P.S.: Now I remember! His Website was called, "The Historic Iron Cross".

--Ken

[Norm F]

Having a good contact to Alois Rettemaier, I can tell you that this logo is not their maker mark, and is unknown to them.
...
KR

Karsten

Hi Karsten,

I was just thinking, I don't doubt your contact's word at all on that mystery logo but a lot of years have gone by so I was wondering if your contact was aware of the wide variety of bizarre markings that are known on the Rettenmaier marked EK1s as shown here. It occurs to me that if any or all of these strange markings were unknown to him than it's possible there are other old Rettenmaier mystical markings outside of his experience?

Best regards,
---Norm

(Thanks to 5tefan's EK1 reference website for many of these images.)

[BassD]

made several soldering works doesn't mean that you are a skilled worker, it was the same if i would say i can write so i a am a poet.

ok i must admit that i would not read my poems

[Andreas Klein]

...

@Basti

Let's look at some forensic evidence if you are an unmarked Goethe Type 1.4711.

[BassD]

the letter Andreas shows is a very good example how less workers such a known firm like Souval employed during the war. And S&L has the same problems.

Just for fun... can you believe that Deumer in early 1943 employed only 10 workers? 8 of them are women? And that Deumer was just a fingertip away to get out of busines?

[Andreas Klein]

Hi Basti,

you should be correct .... it had been 8 "old" woman.