heer flak badge

[Frank Heukemes]

Here is a Minesweeper with the exact same hinge /pin/catch setup as Prorege1´s Heer Flak. Also, very likely Foerster & Barth.

Cheers, Frank

[Yuri D.]

Philippe,

YOUR PM BOX is FULL.

Yuri

[CRAIGGOODWIN]

Have I found the maker ??

Hi guys this badge has really been bugging me ! I went through my pics I have saved & found a marked badge for R.S which I assume is Rudolf Souval. What do you guys think ?

[CRAIGGOODWIN]

next

Sorry mine is on the right

[CRAIGGOODWIN]

front

overall

[CRAIGGOODWIN]

back

Well guys what do you think. I am pretty sure they are one & the same. The next question is was Souval a maker of these badges or is mine a post war strike ??

[Mark S.]

I think you are on to something Craig! Good job!

[Mark S.]

No one has any thoughts or comments?

[Warren O]

They look close but the RS badge eagles head has a shorter head and the beak is hooked more, you can see this better from the reverse. Also, the feet /toes are shaped different on the RS badge. Am I being to picky?

[Philippe DB]

Hi guys,

Personnaly I think both badges could come from the same die. However as mentioned earlier by Lorenzo, the badge shown by Graig is made out of a softer material than the RS or for that matter most of the other badges shown.

The general outllines on Graig badge are much softer and more rounded.

What is the general consencus on the RS badge schown by Graig.
I think it looks very good but taken in to account the post war activities of RS I tend to stay away from that maker.

KR
Philippe

[CRAIGGOODWIN]

I think they are the same

Warren - my badge isnt sitting flush or straight on when I scanned it as you can see it is tilted to the left, same when I scanned the back it didnt sit flush. This is why I think you are seeing a more hooked beak.
I'm not sure what you mean about the feet they look identical to me can you elaborate ?

Also look at the alignment wheels the very botoom one looks like it is missing the lower part of the vertical crossmember ( hope that makes sense ? ie it looks like an upside down T. Same with the RS badge. the other wheel isnt a dead on X it is tilted slightly to the right. The other badges posted seem to have a correct X.

The circles near the breach as well look to match up, they are very faint on the RS badge compared to mine but they look the same.

BTW I have to thank Mike Pinkus the RS Badge is from his site.

I agree with Phillipe if it is a RS badge I hope it isnt a post war strike. Mayube the fact it is in the original cardboard box may be a plus ??

[Philippe DB]

I think at the end we are back where we started. There is probably now bullet proof evidence that these are fakes or that they are good. So you have to trust that "Gut feeling" based upon everything you learned and know.

I just saw that in M. Tucker's latest book RS is featured as one of the makers of Heer Flakbadges. Does anybody has other pics of RS marked badges?

Philippe

[Mark S.]

I think we are making headway here.

All these flak badges share design features with the Souval one posted by Craig. There is no doubt in my mind they are connected some how.

But how?

I am not a big fan of Souval badges, but I have to say...the one presented by Craig looks real enough to me. That being said, and for the sake of argument, the others look really weak...soft edges, forced details, etc.

Were these made using the original Souval dies, or were they made using a Souval as a master? I think a hands on comparison would be very enlightening.

In the meantime, I would love to see some close up detail of a marked Souval Heer Flak..does anyone have one available? (even one you arent sure about?)

What about the known post war fakes where Souval used that strange catch design of the cut metal bent to a tab? I think if we can find one of these, then we would at least know for sure that Souval made Heer Flak badges, which is a start.

[Philippe DB]

Hi Mark,

I tend to disagree with you if you say that all the badges (beside the fakes posted by Frank) have to be related.

I think that only based upon the eagles head there are clear distinctions between some of these badges. I would catalog them in three categories as follows:

1 My badge + Warren's + Porege
2 The two badges posted by Graig
3 The three badges posted by Yuri

If you realy watch carefully you will see that the shape of the heads, the beaks aswell as the eyes are different for those 3 categories.

I also tend to disagree where you state that only the Souval badge shows crisp detail.

Don't know if this leads us anywhere if we don't find more detailed pics of other marked RS badges.

KR
Philippe

[prorege1]

Getting old?

Am I really the only one being so old that I can remember the logo on the postwar Souval copies? The ''R.S.'' logo with the rounded curves in the letter ''S'' were in the 1970s indentified to be post war strikes from the Souval company - the badges with the angular curved letter ''S'' were identified as being 1945 or earlier.

I believe the above badge clearly shows a round curved ''S'' which in the good old days was a clear sign of a post-war strike.