heer flak badge

[Yuri D.]

reverse

[CRAIGGOODWIN]

Thanks Yuri

First off thanks Yuri & Phillipe for your time on this.

I agree I did not notice the X but now that you point it out the wheel below this on mine is also not an + like on the ones you posted. The nipples didnt mean that much but now that you point them out I can see what you mean.
What about the bubbling isnt this a good sign ? not that I am trying to hang on here but this is a point I would like clarified for other badges etc in the future. I was told early on that on a Zinc badge bubbling is a good sign.
I also take note your comments on the round edges to the catch plate mine does not have this
I must be semi learning here as the head of the eagle & the catch to me gave me concern.
I have also noticed that most have the wingtip touching the barrel is there any hard & fast rule here.
lastly can someone clarify the diestruck statement on the main award site. If this is incorrect it should be removed asd it may & did in my case put people off.

[Philippe DB]

Hi Yuri,

The 3 badges from the assc. galery you posted aswell as my badge are somehow related I think. The general details in adjustment wheels, acorn layout, eagles head, hinge and catch plate are all the same.

The difference in detail seen on the breach rivets is probably the result of a worn out die or ware. When you carefully look at top rivet, on the detail pic I posted from my badge, you will notice that it is more pronounced than the lower 3.

The interesting feature on my badge is however the wide steel pin. Frank H. thinks that it is a typical Foerster & Barth pin. The same pin also to be found on the rare semi-hollow unmarked heer flakbadges that show exactly the same obverse features.

This could be a first hint towards a possible maker but certainly isn't sufficient proof.

Kind regards
Philippe

[Philippe DB]

Hi Graig,

Concerning the bubbling and out of my personal expierience I can tell you the following. Recently I found a Schwerin Zink Destroyer badge on a German Dealers site that showed clear sings of bubbling. Since Detlev just posted (I think it was 4 weeks ago) a comparison on exactly that badge in his fake of the week I could be 100 % sure that it was the same fake. I contacted that dealer and after discussing all the information he withdrew that badge immediately.

Sadly I didn't save a picture of that badge but personaly I would be very carefully to rely on bubbling as a sure indicator of authenticity. I think you have to consider that the fakes also are ageing.

Kind regards
Philippe

[Mike Pinkus]

Hello

Craig i can not answer your comment on the reason for the do not buy "struck" pieces. i guess Yuri needs to answer that.

My experience with unmarked Army Flak badges is the same as everyones...it appears that for some reason many of these badges were not marked at all and thus it is very difficult to make the call. Generally speaking there appears to be at least as many makers of these as the far more common Luft flak badges.
Some makers like O'sang and FB&L i have only seen 1 or 2 examples of their marked badges and these were pictures for example.
The materials used were primarily zinc though a plated tombac variation has been seen. the variations with hinge and catch combinations only confuse the issue..as stated earlier the bottom line is you need to be comfortable with what you own.
mike

[Warren O]

Philippe,
Is this the badge you speak of, if I can post it right.

[Warren O]

And now the front, I've seen this type hinge/ pin setup on many zinc Kriegs badges,

[Yuri D.]

FRANK HEUKEMES!!!!!!!!!! ARE YOU OUT THERE?????????

Frank has a General Assault Badge marked "L/21" on the pin with the identical pin configuration. I have no problems with Warren O.s badge,

Yuri

[Philippe DB]

Hi Warren,

Yes thats the badge I was talking about. As you can see your badge show exactly the same obverse layout down to the lower rivets on the breach.

Why am I not surprised to see that it however shows a different catch. Does yours have a catch plate and is your pin magnetic. It seems those guys did everything to make sure they never produce exactly the same badge twice.

Your badge is also interesting because it clearly show remains of the Silver wash but only on the reverse. If you look at my badge you will see minimal traces of silver arround the hinge area only.
I often wondered if my badge ever wore finish on the obverse. You can see that the cannon for example is realy shiney and other areas are just plain grey.

Concerning Frank H, I think there are 2 possibilities or he deserted us and found a more interesting Forum or he volunteered to fight in the Gulf War. Hope he chose the wright side


Kind regards
Philippe

[Mark S.]

Frank is moving into a new home, and will be gone for a few days.

[Yuri D.]

I have images of Frank's badge, I will post them tonight on this thread.

Yuri

[Warren O]

Thanks for the thumbs up Gents, the pin,hinge,hook are all nonmagnetic. The hinge is a stamped sheet metal with a wide base, the hook is finely soldered without base and curls in on itself. I've seen this arrangement on Kriegs badges, I recall one with an L/#. I should have written the number down (I thought I would remember it) .
Warren

[DaveJ]

I had posted this a while back but since we are talking about heer flak badges, I have this unmarked, obvously die struck, appears to be plated tombak

[DaveJ]

Here is the back, it weighs in at 38 grams

[DaveJ]

As I study mine it looks just like the one belonging to Mike Pinkus. The quick give away is the little flaw on the lowwer recoil cylinder, about half way up there is a flat spot