Bronze 25 PAB

[Philippe DB]

reverse

[Philippe DB]

50 obverse

This 50 developed quite some patina, visible between the wings and paws and in the swas but also on the silver finish of the panzer that almost took on a bronze like tone

[Philippe DB]

and the reverse. Notice that non of these badges feature the little hole in the numberbox, a hole you will find on most of these badges although I'm not sure why it was made because I only ever encountered one with a rivet holding the numberbox

KR
Philippe

[Marc Garlasco]

Gorgeous Phillipe! What a pair!
Marc

[Jeff V]

Very Nice Philippe! A long vacation AND those two badges. Nothing wrong with that!!! best wishes,
jeff

[Philippe DB]

Gorgeous Phillipe! What a pair!
Marc

Well Marc, together with their battle hardened brother they now form a trio

[Don D.]

If these are from the same maker why does one not have cutouts between the wings?

[Giel VW]

Very nice PAB's Philippe

[Don D.]

50 obverse

This 50 developed quite some patina, visible between the wings and paws and in the swas but also on the silver finish of the panzer that almost took on a bronze like tone

That green patina almost looks artificial to me. Why would there be green patina (an indicator of copper/tombak) on a zink badge? You see how it is pooled in the low areas of the front and back. We have seen this type of aging on fakes before. Oh course, you have it in hand and are better able to tell than I can from looking at a picture.

[robert60446]

Lovely badges Phil. These are for sure great additions to your collection.
@Don – I do believe that these were hand made cutouts (with a use of "power" tools of course). They will very from badge to badge or in some cases (like on Philippe’s badge) they are not present at all. Nothing to worry IMO.

[Don D.]

That might be an explaination Robert but if they were made in such low numbers than I would not expect to many variations. I like the first one Philippe posted. The second has me wondering. Besides the non-cutouts what about the green patina? It is in the low areas and could be artifically applied like on this badge. You can see some of it in the wreath on the left side.

[Don D.]

And now the reverse. See how it has pooled in the low areas.

[Don D.]

But if we are not really going to discuss these then we should move this thread to the collector's forum for the "ooohhhh and aawww" comments.

[robert60446]

Besides the non-cutouts what about the green patina? It is in the low areas and could be artifically applied like on this badge. You can see some of it in the wreath on the left side.

Don,
Yes I have seen posted by you in post#102 artificial patina many times on fake badges from local shows. However personally I don’t think that we can say that the same artificially created green oxidation could be found on Phil’s badge. Regardless, it is hard to say what is really there because some colors are very hard to capture and often are oversaturated which may lead to misrepresentation on the computer screen. One more thing, it is worth to note that I have seen in the past green oxidation on the perfectly fine zinc badges as well (but different in look from posted by you in post#102), but I really don’t want to speculate here. In conclusion I would like to say that personally I will have no problem with buying this PAB 50 from Phil if he will ever decide to sell his badge. Of course everyone is free to draw his own conclusions…

[Don D.]

Well, I guess that is it then. Case closed. Nobody wants to discuss these differences and come to some logical conclusion. It must be good because Philippe says it is. While I admire his knowledge base and drive for finding the truth I still prefer to determine the facts for myself.

I guess the truest thing said in this thread was by Frank, and I quote," It is ok to reach that conclusion for YOURSELF ... but it is to premature to present this to the community who eagerly absorbs it without checking it ...."

This thread has seen badges pronounced good, then bad, then who knows and now we have several dissimular yet good ones. Little real discussion has taken place. Where are the detailed photos, the acorns etc... which helped solve an earlier mystery. None of that here, just "its good, no wait, it's bad, but these are good." And we wonder why know one wants to participate. Since I don't have a dog in this fight I was only watching to learn and I'm dissapointed in what I found out.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->