Bronze 25 PAB

[Jeff V]

Interesting points Don. I have seen strange patinas on zinc badges before. Sometimes the silver turns a goldish color(for instance a zinc jfs numbered tank badge for sale on the e-stand by Jacques a while back) I have a zinc army para where the silver eagle has toned to a light gold color. Here is a jfs 75 gab where it looks like it maybe had some water damage on one side. Depending on the lighting it can be seen as a green color. best wishes,
jeff

[Jeff V]

On the above photo look at the eagles left wing. On this pic look at the grenade and bayonet. A greenish patina.

[Jeff V]

On Philippe's badges you will notice the EXACT same hinge. In fact it is the same hinge that was on your 100 pab. A similar hinge is found on the fakes but it is not exactly the same. best wishes,
jeff

[Frank Heukemes]

Hi guys,

Up to now, we never really looked into these semi-hollow numbered PABs. I had to do it because of the book and Philippe because he already owned one of these and acquired a new, bronze one, which started this discussion.

In the meantime, I also own a 25 example of these, which I recently added to this thread. I agree that once one actually owns one of the originals and one can take all the time to look at the details of manufacture and hand finishing, the danger to fall for a fake of these turns almost to zero. But it is almost impossible to transport this in mere words and pictures on a forum thread.

The "it is good, no wait, it is bad now, but these are good" cannot be held against Philippe. It is a natural learning process which Philippe went through a couple of weeks before I did, since my interest was now peaked in these badges.

I agree with Philippe that both of his new acquisitions are originals. I have no idea why some have the cut-outs and why some don't. But there are so many other things about these badges to determine if they are original or not that this fact of the cut-outs just has to be accepted.

It is not before you handled the fake and the original of these types that discussions about these can be "to your satisfaction." The differences cannot be fully comprehended without holding these badges.

[Don D.]

Does that mean we have to wait for the book to come out before we can learn to tell the difference? I would like to know what features makes a good one and conversely what features makes one bad. This thread lacks that level of detail. I know Philippe and the rest of us are in the learning mode so why don't we discuss these points?

In the meant time I have answered my own question about the green patina- I believe it is remains of the lacquer that is turning color. I owned a CA badge once that had the same effect only more pronounced.

[Anthony]

Dear All,

I started this thread with a new badge that I had received, I did my own detective work as well as what was discussed here, and with the help of two long time collector friends of mine, upon receiving there advice it was very obvious that my badge was a copie, and it went straight back for a full refund. I bought the badge because I thought it was the same as the Silver one that I had, which matched several in very old collections, had been seen by many collectors, and was ok ed here is this thread.

I will call this badge TYPE 1 with out the cutput and that will do for me, here it is again. It might be good to match this one with others and then move on to TYPE 1 with the cutout, if that is the only difference, to establish some sort of order that we all can agree on. If you have one that matches please post it.

Regards,

Anthony

[Anthony]

And the reverse.

[Philippe DB]

Dear Anthony,

Your 25 matches my 50.

Both the cut and the un-cut variants are from one and the same maker.

No cut-out area between paws and wings will ever be the same on these PAB's for the simple reason that the were done by hand.

Why they decided to not preform the cut-out on some badges is a question I can't answer but I can imagine that they refrained from doing this simply to save time.

KR
Philippe

[Anthony]

Dear Philippe,

Thanks for your reply. So if the cutout and non cutout ones are the same, you would think that they made the cutout ones first, then as you say due to time reasons did not bother any more, the badge that I have has heavy Silver plating, so do the cutout ones have this? or are they just frosted, they look frosted to me, then it would be interesting to know why on my badge it has a better finish if it was made second. I hope that all makes sense, just trying to tie down the time period of manufacture.

Regards,

Anthony

[Panzer Rob]

This thread is yet another example of why I love WAF. The knowledge of some of the members here is invaluable, and I know that when the time comes for me to add a numbered PAB to my collection, I will have the reference material I need to feel 100% comfortable when making that purchase.

This is a great thread, and I want to say "Thank You" to all those who have contributed.

Rob

[Frank Heukemes]

Hi Anthony,

My cutout example which I recently posted in here is silver plated.

[robert60446]

Anthony,
Examples which I was handling in my hands (with cutouts only) were metal plated as well.

[Anthony]

Hi Guys

Thanks for the information, now it all fits.

Regards,

Anthony

[cckw]

how bout this one?

what do you make of this one? A family offered it for sale. I passed due to the broken, then reattached, swastika. The family appeared to honestly believe the vet brought it home.

[cckw]

the back

the back