What the.....!!!!

[George Stimson]

I think that that's a very reasonable assumption Mikael. So if we can get a look at some "L/12" Oaks or Oaks/Swords with an ironclad provenance I think we would be safe in accepting those (and none other) as the "textbook" examples of those awards.

Pics anyone?

[Brian S]

Awards that are 'museum copy', 'private purchase by "other" companies' and 'retail sales' pieces should not even be considered "Wehrmacht Awards". They certainly can be talked about as "Wehrmacht Trinkets" but not "Awards". If it's not Godet it's not a "Wehrmacht Award". And kick me off the forum if you like but THERE WERE RESTRIKES of the '21s'.

And what is "PROVENANCE"? It's 2004. The war ended 60 years ago. It's a little late for NEW items unless we have photographic evidence in catalogs or portraits. I can't help but laugh at a few groupings of a ton of Award Documents and one "rare" badge. Yeah.

[Dietrich Maerz]

... And kick me off the forum if you like but THERE WERE RESTRIKES of the '21s'.

Brian,

how could you be kicked of the forum when you state something that was published by our former moderator openly. Gordon Williamson, page 390, Ther Iron Cross.
This was not the dispute, the dispute was why those pieces were marked Godet and were clearly not Godet..., maybe the same problem we have here right now.

Dietrich

[Brian S]

Well Dietrich, the owner of this forum told me to shut up and sit down unless I had proof. I considered Herr Stump's firsthand accounts as well as Gordon's as proof enough as well as the fact I saw them for sale in the late 60's and 70's nicely cased. And they came off the original dies.

As for these. I think first it has to be established they were presented for anything wartime. I don't think they were. Godet was the manufacturer.

Therefore, these are trinkets and nothing more than that. "Museum pieces" "Storefront examples" "Nonsense"

So what do I say that?

Now I'm not saying "restrike" I'm saying "trinket".

[Brian S]

Now look what's happened, everyone's afraid of banishment for talking about a trinket trumpeted by a dealer.

[Dave Kane]

Not to worry Brian.....as George astutely pointed out there have been over 1700 'notifications' sent by way of a look see on this thread

[George Stimson]

And 95 responses from people "not talking about it."

[Dietrich Maerz]

George,

you are right as always. And only 8064 more views and 153 more posts and we have reached the same level as the thread about Detlev's new catalog which is number two of the all time list!

Dietrich

[George Stimson]

Well, sure. But don't forget -- most people have a chance of obtaining one of Detlev's catalogs. (Except coastie, I guess.... )

[tom hansen]

Yes, Gordon has openly stated he feels there WERE restrikes of the Godet oaks and oaks/swords and is reluctant to own such pieces unless rock solid provenance is available for the piece in quesiton. That being said, I would think most would feel uncomfortable spending that much on oaks or oaks/swords unless there was rock-solid provenance.



Speaking of Detlev's catalog, what is the difference on p 481 between items "a" and items "b1-b2"?

[meriksson]

Was this about Godet stuff? I did think this was all about those L/12 stuff

Awards that are 'museum copy', 'private purchase by "other" companies' and 'retail sales' pieces should not even be considered "Wehrmacht Awards". They certainly can be talked about as "Wehrmacht Trinkets" but not "Awards". If it's not Godet it's not a "Wehrmacht Award". And kick me off the forum if you like but THERE WERE RESTRIKES of the '21s'.

And what is "PROVENANCE"? It's 2004. The war ended 60 years ago. It's a little late for NEW items unless we have photographic evidence in catalogs or portraits. I can't help but laugh at a few groupings of a ton of Award Documents and one "rare" badge. Yeah.

[Dave Kane]

Actually, it's about all of it and the crap dealers attempt to ram down our collective throats!!!

Or better said....used to

[meriksson]

Lets kill one at a time. This tread is about L/12 and i think it should stay whit L/12!!

Mikael

Actually, it's about all of it and the crap dealers attempt to ram down our collective throats!!!

Or better said....used to

[Dietrich Maerz]

I was just looking into the old "Strike-Restrike" thread to refresh my memory and to see whether the developed method might be used to help in this case here with the L 12.

To my utter amazement I found out that (nearly) all my pictures are gone and - more importantly - all the very detailled and very convincing comparisons between the oaks in question and real oaks are no longer part of the thread and/or my postings.

It's sad to see that the proof for those questionable oaks is no longer publicly available - whatever the reason might be (space saving, archive, ...)

Dietrich

[meriksson]

I think we all are still missing this

Mikael

Well then (again), can anybody post a pic of an "L/12" Oaks/Swords with a bulletproof provenance?