Interesting Group ...

[heinrich66]

Hi Dietrich,

Anding and 2 other Members of the unit (G.Walle and N.Stützle) won a knights cross for the same action in the same town (which is only a few minutes away from where i grew up) here in northern Germany. They all destroyed between 5-8 Tanks each (the real numbers are still unknown today) by using Panzerfausts.
There exists single photos of all 3 wearing black uniforms and their knights crosses. Keep in mind, that all were more or less heavily wounded during this fight. Anding himself got several wounds in his legs. G.Walle had a shot in the lower head, separating his jaw! But in his picture, no (visible) traces of this wound.

When the group first was offered by hermann historica years i was wondering why there were only average materials and postwar docs but his(?) knights cross and german cross.........

[Rich G]

One other possibility could be that given the late date of the award and the decimation of "GD", that on hearing he had been awarded the RK, no RK's were actually available. In order to have his photo taken with RK, it is possible that he borrowed another RTK's RK for the photo and then acquired is own later, through whatever means or channels.

As for stories of 'hiding awards' going into captivity, I personally know of one RKT who did this with his RK (RK only no other awards) and still has his. It's an L/12. BTW.

Rich

[DavidM]

Can someone please tell me who is selling the grouping? I'm interested in seeing what else is available.

Thanks,
Rob

Hello

It's Detlev Niemann.

Regards
David

[Flemming]

I have a question regarding the TDB.
If I remember correct, when you did have 4 black TDB and were awarded the 5th, you got the gold one, right?

If that is true, that means that he has destroyed 14 armored vehicle?

I just want to know if I got that right.

Best regards, and have a nice weekend

/Flemming

[Marc Garlasco]

No, he had 3 gold and 3 black for 18 kills.
Marc

[jacques]

here is another photo

[jacques]

close up of the cross

[jacques]

last one

[Flemming]

here is another photo

Aahhh, yeah. It is more clearly to see that he has three gold badges in that picture...but my math was correct, right, assuming he had 2 gold badges, and the criteria on the awarding of the badges?

/Flemming

[ChrisJ]

Rk ?

It was very common for those that had been awarded a decoration to wear an award belonging a superior officer as an award piece wasnt available..

If you read "Luftwaffe Fighter Ace" by Nobert Hannig (isbn 1-904010-94-6) you will read that his EK1 had passed through several hands when he got it. Why not in this case ?

The conditions in that last weeks of the war were unimaginable.....and everything didnt "stop" as soon as the surrender had been signed. A photo wearing someone elses RK....(oh yes, that I can believe).

But who knows what happened ?

As with all antiques, Caveat emptor.....but dont let it spoil the fun !

[Dietrich Maerz]

Hi Chris,

yes, I see your point! He took the cross from his friend (a S&L cross), went to the photographer, put his top dress on, took the pictures, came back and gave the S&L to his friend and by luck got his K&Q. All in one day! Or several days -= he could have started the process in anticipation. In the beautifull and quiet May of 1945.

Mundus vult decipi!

Dietrich

[byterock]

Lets throw a little more gas in the fire

In Spaeter's Book 'Panzerkops Grossdeutschland'

We find the same picture of Andin's and the same unite and date of award 4/20/1945 but here is the citation

"In action against heavy British tanks in northern Germany, Lt A destroyed six enemy tanks and five enemy armored reconnaissance cars by using Panzerfaust as an individual fighter on April 14/15, 1945 in Stadensen and Nettelkamp"

In the book below the citation is a hand written note which I cannot read very well but is clearly signed by D******246;nitz but my be from some time after the war.

[Time Bandit]

In the book below the citation is a hand written note which I cannot read very well but is clearly signed by Dönitz but my be from some time after the war.

The note looks like it's dated 15.12.61 ??

[Luftm40]

In the most recent Fellgiebel book Anding's award date is listed as May 8th 1945...the date of surrender. My guess would be that Anding's award was in the very late war group made by local commanders. Many of these were adjudicated post war to establish their validity. Some made the cut others didn't. I believe in the post war years Doenitz was a key player in this process as he was running the show at the end and survived the war. I'm almost 100% certain the well known portraits of Anding are post war poses and I doubt he received an actual RK thru official channels...who knows though. Some things would have to be taken on faith w/ this group IMO. I have a group where the RK was awarded under similar circumstances. My guy wore a converted EK2 and also posed for a portrait in the very early postwar era wearing same.

[Luftm40]

Posted many times before but it is applicable to the discussion. Walter Sumpf was a bomber pilot and very late war recipient. He is listed as an RKT but w/ no documentation found to back it up. In his case, the award was authorized post war by Ernst Obermaier and the Gemeinschaft der Jagdflieger by some unknown process. This portrait is probably very very early postwar. If you don't own the most recent Fellgiebel book, it is quite interesting. The late war recipients were deemed worthy by a number of different yardsticks. There was even a category for supposed RKT who had served honorably (as RKT) in the post war German armed forces who got a "pass" to keep their awards despite there being no documentation whatsoever. I guess they didn't want to strip awards from officers who volunteered to serve in the new German military...I think politics and who you knew played a part