GFM von Bock's KC?

[Dietrich Maerz]

Hi Pieter,
Thanks for dropping in!

Any possibility of substantiating what you said with a picture, reference or such? Do you own the cross perhaps and could show us a little more?

If not, I guess we just have to take your word for it and - as Tony already said earlier - mark accordingly in the book "Latvian Fake".

Case closed! Another mystery solved! RK collecting is so easy.

Dietrich

[Pieter Verbruggen]

Hi Pieter,
Thanks for dropping in!

Any possibility of substantiating what you said with a picture, reference or such? Do you own the cross perhaps and could show us a little more?

If not, I guess we just have to take your word for it and - as Tony already said earlier - mark accordingly in the book "Latvian Fake".

Case closed! Another mystery solved! RK collecting is so easy.

Dietrich

Here IS PROOF it, (nice for Brian), take the Hoffmann picture of him and compare the cross... and this cross of von Bock on the Hoffmann picture is still in existence...but sorry I may not post it. But believe me on this on it's a Juncker.
Pieter.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Pieter,

why should I not believe you?

Somebody will hopefully post the Hoffmann picture and we can all see and compare.

Now what do you make of the -let's call it "dubious" - cross for now? A switch, a copy, a genuine example (replacement, so called "private purchase") or what?

Dietrich

[Pieter Verbruggen]

Pieter,

why should I not believe you?

Somebody will hopefully post the Hoffmann picture and we can all see and compare.

Now what do you make of the -let's call it "dubious" - cross for now? A switch, a copy, a genuine example (replacement, so called "private purchase") or what?

Dietrich

....yust simply the same as you think or lets be more formal...what you know... .

Pieter.

....why not let us call it an early rare variant of "THE" rounder... sorry couldn't resist....
PS comming to the MAX???...we could chat on a "cased" Schloss Klessheim water proved GC ...with the pimpel on the same spot....

[Biro]

Who am I to argue...

This is not the Hoffmann picture - I don't know where it originates from - but on the left, von bock wearing KC & PLM - on the right, von Bock's RK from the fieldmarshalsbaton website.

The dates don't look the same height, even with the different perspectives ......so I guess we really need to see the Hoffmann photo...

Marshall

[Dietrich Maerz]

No Pieter, it's not an early Rounder! Unless they (whoever) changed the outer corners and the inner corners and the core...

And No, I'm not comming to the MAX. I guess we will see us at the SOS then.

And at this point in time I don't know what "it" is and I will be damn'd to make a hasty statement! No need to!

Have a safe trip!

Dietrich

[Dave Kane]

Von Bock...note the PLM behind the JUNCKER Knight's Cross...

[Dave Kane]

As Generalfeldmarshall dipicted on a "Rhor" postcard #3636....

Again, clearly a Juncker! Even more so with the card in hand.

[Dave Kane]

Here's another one with the "latvian lizard tail" ending of the outer corner. Unfortunately, it's a Zimmermann.

So I guess this guessing and comparing to fakes (real or persumed) will not solve the issue. Why is it not possible to accept this cross as an early RK with inner rounded corner by deliberate design of the tool, i.e. not filed?

Why is this so tough to accept! Because it shows that this was an acceptable design?

Dietrich

Wow! Several hours and nothing added...I'm surprised

Let's see if we can get through some of these presumptions!

Your turn Dietrich, why and based on what (regarding Knight's Crosses) was this "design" acceptable?

Clearly, von Bock wore a Juncker Knight's Cross albeit a bit over worked in places as seen here and in Signal and on many Juncker Crosses....none make a case for the Rounder being an original piece and nothing that I have found, read or otherwise suggested that there is and or was an 'ACCEPTABLE' design resulting in 'rounded' inner corners as formed by a die!

[George Stimson]

"nothing that I have found, read or otherwise suggested that there is and or was an 'ACCEPTABLE' design resulting in 'rounded' inner corners as formed by a die!"

I take it that you are referring solely to RKs, and not to other grades of the EK?

[Dave Kane]

George...you must read the entire post!!! It is you afterall who prods me to 'explain' photos and thoughts....


What's the use if folks choose only to 'see' what they want.....???

This was part of my post


"you turn Dietrich, why and based on what (regarding Knight's Crosses) was this "design" acceptable?"

[George Stimson]

Okay. The reason I was asking is because there are numerous examples of the lower grades of EK (First and Second Classes) which have rounded inner corners which are definitely shaped by the die. On the other hand, on all of my Imperial EKs (probably over 70 examples), the inner corners are right-angle sharp. So, there is some evidence that rounded inner corners were acceptable on lower grades of 1939 EKs, whereas they were apparently not on Imperial examples. Is it not possible, then, that this new and possibly experimental style was also carried over in the design or manufacture of some RKs?
Just a thought....

[George Stimson]

In other words, if such a design was "acceptable" for the lower grades of the 1939 EK, why wouldn't it be as "acceptable" for the higher grade?

[Dave Kane]

George...I understand the 'thought' but think about this......


Premier medal makers...long established firms.....business affiliations going back decades....traditions etc etc etc.

Knowing the country was going to war....what firms would be asked (in secret) to propose a design, create a (production die) and have awards ready, including ribbon, cases and packaging?

This 'stretching' of a 'rounder' as an EARLY design and the attempt to place it in a 'GRAY AREA' of retail gets a bit crazy....

Heck, even in 54 - 57 it was S&L who got the thumbs up for the (new) awards initially...

[Dave Kane]

George..don't respond as I realized that this thread is turning in to a 'Rounder' discussion!!! I said I wouldn't participate an any others yet I keep being drawn and it only goes in circles


Sign me out and Lads please go back to the von Bock Cross