The Machinegunner Sharpshooters Badge

[Don D.]

Notice how much "blockier" the letters are on mine. Especially the C. and the B in Berlin.

I hope this comparison helps keep people out of trouble with these and I want to thank Marcus for sending this badge to me.
Don

[Doug See]

Good stuff. Thanks for all the hard work and time. I see a definite similarity between the letter fonts on the fake, and the maker marks on those fake KAG and KO EK1's we see recently. The R's are almost the same and you can see how the "legs" on some of the letters overlap the uprights as the cross back over them. You don't see this on older stamps. It's as if these are laser engraved letters, rather than die stamps. Wouldn't it be nice to find the slimeball(s) who are making and distributing these new fakes? One day we will. Renee from Missouri, wanna make things right and give us the names?

[Tony & Kaiser]

I really have to commend everyone but especially Don for this very interesting and academic discussion on the Aermelzbzeichen der MG-Scharfschuetzen-Formationen (say THAT fast after 5 beers!). It has been a pleasure to read.

I do note that the discussion focuses on the Juncker marked badges. I wonder why fakers seem to think that a Juncker stamp gives an item instant validity? At any rate, here is my unmarked badge. I bought it at a flea market in Germany in 83 or 84 for less than the price of a beer. There are some interesting differences compared to the original Junckers.

1. The trigger handles are open at the top;

2. The lower front right leg does not go over the ring of bullets. Note also the thin leg, it almost looks like a poor stamping (?) in that spot as the top leg is three-dimensional with a rib;

3. The details are quite crisp compared to Juncker;

4. The barrel protrudes on the front;

5. The details to rear elevation mech are very different; and

6. Of course the back is quite different as well.

One thing I have not seen anyone mention, is that on originals, the ring of bullets are very close, almost touching for the entire circumference, yet on the copies, there seems to be a gap between the cartridges.

Don, feel free to pluck the photo and circle with yellow to your heart's content. Tony http://www.kaisersbunker.com

[Tony & Kaiser]

And, a very nice photo of post-war use of this badge.

<img src="http://www.kaisersbunker.com/stuff/MG_Horse.jpg">

[Paul B]

Superb and valuable comparisons, Don and Tony.

Notice also the holes on the rear of Marcus' backing plate in the north, east, south and west positions. In every original I've ever seen (like yours) these holes are an elongated almost oval shape. On Marcus' badge they are true circles like the holes in the centre. Maybe another point to look out for?

Cheers

Paul.

[Paul B]

This is one of mine. I got this from an old collection in the North of England, where it had been for about 15 years before I bought (this fact is merely for background, and not to be taken as an indicator of originality).

It's an umarked example, very similar to the unmarked MG badge shown in the Militaria Magazine article in issue 147. It's also very similar -if not identical- to the unmarked example Chip posted. Points in it's favour are:

The detail and spacing on the ammo belt.

The extention of the front legs onto the belt.

The detail of the trigger and spade grips.

The detail on the traversing wheel.

The backing cloth, when compared to original WWI German feldgrau in my uniform collection.

The sharp attachment prongs.

Stuff I'm unsure of -are the thick legs and the smaller gaps in the sled-mount trail indicative of Juncker badges, or should we look out for them on all examples?

[Paul B]

This is another Juncker example -the Prussian War Ministry sealed pattern of February 8th 1916, shown on page 321 of Kraus' "The German Army in the First World War".

Note the similarities to the badges already shown -including the distinctive rear sight- but also the differences in the trigger/spade grips and the thickness of the front legs.

For the record, I believe that the badges and the period photos discussed in this thread do show that anyone considering a Juncker MG badge should be on the look-out for one with the thick front legs, but the differences shown in this example do bring up an interesting point: This is of course a sealed pattern, so it being a War Ministry sample may account for them, equally slightly differing designs may have been used by the Juncker company in the 2-3 years this badge was being produced.

Perhaps this badge was also made into the 1920s -many photos show it in post-war use by Freikorps or even the fledgling Reichswehr (perhaps even for veterans groups?)

We still have a lot more to learn about this badge.

Cheers

Paul.

[Tony & Kaiser]

Superb and valuable comparisons, Don and Tony.

Paul!
Please do not give me any credit, I came dancing into this thread after following it for 8 pages. This is Don's research, and it is fascinating. I think he will save a lot of poor schmucks some $. But......as I am sure Doug will agree, why waste your time researching originality in Forums like this when it is much faster and convenient to throw your money away on crap? T

[Paul B]

Paul!
Please do not give me any credit, I came dancing into this thread after following it for 8 pages. This is Don's research, and it is fascinating. I think he will save a lot of poor schmucks some $. But......as I am sure Doug will agree, why waste your time researching originality in Forums like this when it is much faster and convenient to throw your money away on crap? T

....actually, I meant to credit Brian and Marcus as well as Don. I'd just been looking at your Canadian tunics at www.kaisersbunker.com, hence my bizarre Freudian slip.

Anyway, you're right....screw research, I'm off to eBay for that double decal chickenwire snow camo SS Fallschirmjager helmet that Czech guys selling....

Cheers

Paul.

[Don D.]

Thanks for posting the additional pica. I'll have to do some comparisions when I get home from work. Tony, Paul, are the badges you posted flat?
thanks
Don

[Tony & Kaiser]

Tony, Paul, are the badges you posted flat?

Nope. Its a fat little thing. It has so much depth, that it looks like a tiny MG08 cut in half.

You have to wonder about this hobby.........7 AM and I'm on the back deck in my housecoat taking a photo of an old badge before going to work..............

http://www.kaisersbunker.com

[Paul B]

Hi Don

My digital camera isn't playing at the moment, so I'm reliant on scanning. However, viewed from the same angle as Tony's badge above mine displays similar depth characteristics in that although not quite so chunky, the barrel and the rearward slope of the sled-mount do stand out when compared to the ammo belt.

The detail on the ammo belt itself is fairly chunky in it's own right, and the two bands where the barrel meets the breech are prominant as well.

Cheers

Paul.

[Don D.]

Thanks guys. Tony, I don't know what is so strange about sitting on your deck this early. I just finished a 5 mile run and am standing here sweating like a pig, trying not to drip on the computer.
Don

[Brian S]

Tony, as a uniform expert what do you think about the green material on this badge. I'm used to grey on these.

[Tony & Kaiser]

Tony, as a uniform expert what do you think about the green material on this badge. I'm used to grey on these.

Oh my GAWD Brian please never refer to me as an expert. Go to a show or turn over a rock and there are people lined up to tell you they are "experts". I'm just a guy with a lot of books and musty old junk.

But were you referring to my example? It's Feldgrau which does have green/grey tinge to it. The backing is identical cloth to my M15 Bluse examples etc, darker than the M10 Feldrock cloth. Typical very course weave which is often found on later war cloth; you can see it is a few spots showing through. Could just be the color reproduction of the photo due to the lighting, internet etc....