The Machinegunner Sharpshooters Badge

[Aave Johns]

More research

I dont know Johnsy, a number of british books talk about the killing of people trying to surrender, the australians coined the phrase "to late mate" and I am just reading a book by a highly decorated Bavarian, am actually on the page where he describes an attack by the French. paraphrased he wrote "The French come forward, killing all of those who try and surrender. it is only normal, we have been mowing them down during the attack and pelting them with grenades, in such a case it is to late to surrender" (and exactly in situations like that the "to late mate" thing is heard).

There are plenty of books with accounts of such happenings.

Another book, Infantrist Penobstler mentions a case where the day aftr a trench raid they (the Bavarians) find single british stragglers behind their lines. Furious at the losses they suffered they killed them out of hand, unless an officer was there to stop it.

I had better do some more research then Chris, most of the books I have read on the subject were written just after the war. I have a 8 book leather bound set on WW1 that is a bit biased, but covers the entire conflict, and I could find no reference of this, though it does have a lot of anti-German propaganda in it. I may have to read a few more current books, can you recommend anything to me?

Regards
Johnsy

[Don D.]

I've went back to the beginning of this thread and looked at the group photos again. If this is an organizational badge why are so few soldiers wearing them in the group shots?
Don

[Frosch]

Don,

I also have similar pictures showing badges being worn and some missing. I can only assume that badges were issued according to availability and not everyone joined a unit at the same time.

/David

[Chris Boonzaier]

If it were an award, then it would be entered somewhere... some kind of written proof that it had been awarded, otherwise anyone could sew one on and say "when did I get it? 2 years ago in russia.."

That IS an interesting question though... I will look through my books and see if I can find anything.

All the best
Chris

[Steve Conway]

Would this badge be classified as an award or a qualification badge, if the latter wouldn't it normally be entered in a soldiers paybook?


Regards

Steve

[Don D.]

Chris, were the shooting awards (Kaiser Prizes) entered into paybooks? Maybe these were closer to a skill qualification badge than an actual award. I doubt if many people would put one on if they weren't authorized. After all, the only real reward was that you got to carry a very heavy machinegun (or parts and ammo) around.

Don

If it were an award, then it would be entered somewhere... some kind of written proof that it had been awarded, otherwise anyone could sew one on and say "when did I get it? 2 years ago in russia.."

That IS an interesting question though... I will look through my books and see if I can find anything.

All the best
Chris

[Brian S]

Aermelzbzeichen der MG-Scharfschuetzen-Formationen.

An insignia or badge...


Not an award. But probably required training and qualification to be a member of the unit.

[Paul B]

I've went back to the beginning of this thread and looked at the group photos again. If this is an organizational badge why are so few soldiers wearing them in the group shots?
Don

This is just educated guesswork, but I think that the wearing of this badge was governed by similar rules to those concerning modern-day British Army para wings: that is, once you've earned them, then you can wear them on your shoulder regardless of whether you then subsequently transfer to a non-airborne unit. thus we have photos of groups of soldiers from non-MG-SS units, but including some who have previously successfully completed the course.

My reasoning behind this is twofold:

1) The badge was a qualification badge, awarded for passing a course which tested particular military skills. The fact that you might then subsequently serve outside of a MG-SS unit did not negate the fact that you possessed this qualification.

2) Photographic proof. The photo below shows a decorated soldier serving with a Landwehr infantry regiment -not a MG-SS unit- however he is still wearing the MG-SS qualification badge:

[Paul B]

In the spirit of this excellent and much-needed thread (thanks Don) I'll finish with a close-up of the badge from the photo above:

[Paul B]

As an aside, another reason for group photos where some soldiers are wearing the badge and others are not, could be that the soldiers wearing badges are serving on attachment to non-MG-SS units. On the first day of the Battle of Somme in July 1916, the machine-gun company of RIR 119 was reinforced by a few members of MG-SS units (I think MG-SS Abt. 99, but could be wrong)

Cheers

Paul.

[Don D.]

Thanks Paul. Always good to get other members opinions and info. Nice photo too. Note the front legs on the badge are not the "stick" legs you see on so many of these badges offered up on ebay. That and the gaps to the rear of the carriage are smaller than the fakes.
Don

[MH184]

Obverse

[MH184]

rev

[Brian S]

That's interesting. Not like mine but not like the fake either.

There's another fake Juncker something that has the exact maker mark of the fake gunner badge. Frank H had the fake something else... If someone finds it it would be helpful to post in this thread for comparison.

[Brian S]

Here is the fake fake fake fake fake fake fake fake maker mark. We should get all the current badges out there ID'd now if they have this exact maker mark because they'll change it!