West German Polizei

[chiffonnier]

TJ;
Difficult to say what interests me the most in that picture,I like everything.
However one thing stands out for me and it's the photographer himself.
Here's some interesting reading about this globetrotter .
http://www.pixiport.com/photojournalist-falcke.htm
I have a huge collection of press photoos and even some first line reproductions from Ernst Haas,so I like photographs in general .
The one you've posted shows again that photography is art.
All the best,
Kees

[Klaus1989]

Hi TJ,
your photo is from 1953 joint anti-partisan exercise BGS and Hamburger Bepo. The BGS played the "partisans" with mixture of civilian clothes and work uniforms. More photos on this veteran site. Interestingly, one appear to be same shot as yours, but from different angle?

http://www.beim-alten-bgs.de/BGS_Zei...gs_-_1953.html

Regards
Klaus

Hello Gents,

The below picture has just about something for everyone; Polizei, Cold War, gear freaks, small unit tactics, you name it.

I myself am much enamored to the immediate post-war era, aka "World War Two and a Half," a very intriguing time that is begging for an in-depth study.

Thusly, this picture is a pure joy for me as it contains so many elements of the subjects that interest me most.

Please note the wear of the Shako in a very tactical setting, the Kar98ks, the cook pot on bread bag configuration, and the zeltbahn patterns, not to mention the uniforms of the gents rowing the assault boat. "I fully realize we are conducting a tactical river crossing Herr Wachtmeister, now please straighten that neck tie....". Great stuff!

In any event, enjoy, and please tell me what interests you most. Caption in next post.

Kees, I hope this posting spurs some more discussion on your lovely Shako and on what occasions they were worn and by whom.

All the best,
TJ

[Gordon Craig]

Klaus,

Thanks for the additional pictures. Interesting to see that the Hamburg Bepo were using the Italinan MP38a (MP 38/42).

Regards,

Gordon

[Klaus1989]

The Berettas are more likely M38/49, as this was shipped to BRD and used by BGS and some police units (later designate as MP1). But these look very similar to M38/42.

Couple interesting observations: Apparently the Zeltbahnen are from WH stocks, but not sure, if they were given for only this exercise or actually issued. The Hamburger Bepo appear to wear blue tunics and green Stiefelhosen. I think later the Bepo uniform was green (and with steel helmet).

Regards
Klaus

[Gordon Craig]

Klaus,

You are obviously correct on the Berettas. Difficult to tell on the shelter quarters.
There could be two different models worn as there seem to be distinct differences in patterns. The guys wearing shelter quarters where there is not that much difference in the colours could be Wehrmacht shelter quarters. The one where the colours are distinctly different don't look like WWII patterns to me. Closer to BGS than to Wehrmacht. Interesting speculation though.

Regards,

Gordon

[Guardian 5]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for the fabulous input!

It was great to get another view of the exercise and learn about the famous photographer who recorded the events for posterity.

It was interesting to see that the officer's shako had a gold chinstrap, something you'd expect to see on Napoleonic headgear. I surmise that the Bepos wore shakos in this scenario because the Vulcan fiber offered at least a modicum of protection and would serve to make the wearer taller. This latter aspect could come in handy when trying to intimidate rioting bandits. That MP1 is an absolutely elegant looking SMG. I bet it handled like a dream. Regarding the zeltbahnen, I'd have to go with WH issue splinter pattern, although one of them in my picture could pass for BGS sumpftarn.

Just for the fun of it, I've posted a contemporary photo of border policemen from the across the Iron Curtain. At first glance, they could be mistaken for the Hamburg "Schupos" rowing the boat. It's interesting to see how both sides liked to soften the crown of their caps and make use of the Kar98K. Note however, that the Grepo in the center of the photo is armed with a Moisin-Nagant.

Again, many thanks for the great commentary, I've learned a lot!

All the best,
TJ

[Gordon Craig]

Guardian 5,

The Shako was the Bepo's normal headgear. Not worn for just this occasion.

Regards,

Gordon

[Guardian 5]

Thanks!

[Klaus1989]

There was steel helmet worn as well, must have been later introduced, as I would assume they would otherwise wear them during exercises. Someone posted a green tunic with Hamburg insignia, that was claimed to be Hamburger Bepo in this thread earlier. The regular Schutzpolizei wore blue and in these early photos, it appear to be blue tunics with green? breeches.

Here another photo from ended ebay auction (not in my collection) of Hamburger Bepo in training, probably from same time period (early 50s). This time, they wear the Zeltbahnen with Schirmmützen instead of tschakos.



Regards
Klaus

[Gordon Craig]

Klaus,

Interesting picture. There has been previous discussion on this forum as to who wore the schako and the Schirmmütz. One thought was that shutzpolizei wore the Schirmmütz and that BePo wore the schako. Although this was primarily with connection to Berlin and no firm conclusion was ever reached.
Unfortunately, since we can not see the Schirmmützen star clearly enough to identify it this could be any polizei unit. If we could see the collars of their tunics and if they were wearing the distinctive collar insignia of Hamburg we could say for sure that they were from Hamburg. Some things in favour of their being from Hamburg and of this period are;
1-The Schirmmützen stars are complete. From 1947 until 1952 Hamburg wore a flat bottomed star. From 52 until 1980 they wore the complete large star;
2-they are wearing blue uniforms. Erich Radecke in his book "Polizei-Abzeichen - Helme-Heraldik-Historie 3. Band 1945-1993 is my reference for the star and the colour of the uniform which he says was "dunkelblau".
What we need are more pictures that we can identify conclusively as the state/town so we can build a better data base of uniforms and head gear. Not to mention uniforms and headgear that we are sure are authentic for comparison to the pictures.

Regards,

Gordon

her are some examples of headgear in my collection. First a Hamburg Schirmmütz date 1966 with a full star.

[Gordon Craig]

The sweat shield markings from the Hamburg Schirmmütz and a flat bottom star from Niedersachsen.

[Tom B]

What a beauty !! Tom

[Gordon Craig]

Tom B,

Thanks for the kind words. One can never have too many hats!

Regards,

Gordon

[Klaus1989]

The photo was labelled as Hamburger Bepo and they have same equipment and blue tunic w. green/grey breeches. The soft caps and tschakos would be issued to all members of Polizei in most states, so much I know. In Berlin, I have seen photos of Schupos with the tschako. Later Bepo units would wear the steel helmets. It appear not so well established in early years.

If I remember correctly, Niedersachsen also introduced green uniform, for Bepo only, at some time later (like Hamburg). Not sure when? Unfortunately early Polizei is poorly researched, with only a few Länder covered actually in books and then, not so much about uniform history.

Regards
Klaus

[Gordon Craig]

Klaus,

Thanks for the additional info. Green breeches would seem a strange choice but they are certainly a different colour than blue. The more we learn the better off we are.

Regards,

Gordon