BGS BundesGrenzSchutz

[Huntzman]

Hi Steve

Eh, we all get bit from time to time on fakes. Actually, I never truly understood the whole fake BGS bullion patches. I mean they aren't common, but they aren't exactly rare. As long as you are willing to pay the going rate.

As far as the wool backed patches go, no they did see continued use. The one thing you need to remember is that these things were purchased in-bulk. They continued to use what they had on hand.

They came out with the wool back tab to add onto the uniform jackets in the 70's. Ultimately they came out with machine woven ones for specific wear on the shirts and wool versions for jackets. The use of the old woven patches on wool backing wasn't new, the police in Hessen did the same thing well into the 90's.

Remember, timelines and dates are only important to us collectors and trying to determine hard and fast dates with German items is not an exact science

[Collectinsteve]

Thanks for the follow up information! Yeah, I know that the late 1960s and early 1970s was a transition point for BGS uniforms. And like you say, that does mean the rules are "sloppy". I've seen Sumpftarn jackets with 3 different styles of arm badges and sometimes they had the BGS arc above and sometimes not. The dates of the jackets didn't help much since some of the arcs were sewn onto earlier ones years after manufacture.

I've never seen the felt backed arc. I'll have to keep my eye open for one like that!

And you're right... only us collector nuts care about these things! Sometimes there are very definite mistakes that can be made. Like when I Spanish Foreign Legion uniform I fixed up. The badge was the correct type, but what I did not know was several years before the uniform was made that particular grade of rank was discontinued. So there was 0% chance the uniform I made would ever have existed. I felt silly for missing that fact!

Steve

[Huntzman]

You'd be surprised at what "Old" BGS uniforms are still being used in the Bundespolizei. What we have to remember is that they are cops, and cops know that there are two worlds. One is the world of "proper" regulations and world number two is what they actually do

If you want to see the wool backed tab, look on my site. I have one listed, right next to the wool backed eagle.

Andrew

[Klaus1989]

Andrew,
So were wool backed eagles also worn on greatcoats in 1950s and early 1960s, or was wool? I heard before that greatcoats use wool patches, but have seen ones with only woolbacked. I know there is also early wool patch, because my Bundbluse (waist jacket) has one and is different material/style from late ones.

regards
Klaus

[draper1986]

Bundesgrenzschutz Winter Jacket

I came across this at a yard sale and i would like to get a guesstimate on the value as im trying to sell it to a collector. you can see the pics at the following link.

Call me if you want. the number is on the craigslist ad.

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/sat/atq/1992953913.html

[draper1986]

Thanks for the follow up information! Yeah, I know that the late 1960s and early 1970s was a transition point for BGS uniforms. And like you say, that does mean the rules are "sloppy". I've seen Sumpftarn jackets with 3 different styles of arm badges and sometimes they had the BGS arc above and sometimes not. The dates of the jackets didn't help much since some of the arcs were sewn onto earlier ones years after manufacture.

I've never seen the felt backed arc. I'll have to keep my eye open for one like that!

And you're right... only us collector nuts care about these things! Sometimes there are very definite mistakes that can be made. Like when I Spanish Foreign Legion uniform I fixed up. The badge was the correct type, but what I did not know was several years before the uniform was made that particular grade of rank was discontinued. So there was 0% chance the uniform I made would ever have existed. I felt silly for missing that fact!

Steve

Mine has ALL felt backed patches.

[Collectinsteve]

That is a post 1976 parka. I think this type was made in the 1980s and used into the early 1990s. Not exactly sure about production dates, though. Check on the inside left breast parka shell pocket for a label. It might have a date on it. The label in your picture is from the liner which may, or may not, be the same as the parka shell. I think the production date is 1987. The liners of the green and camouflage parkas aren't compatible IIRC.

The badge being discussed earlier is a machine woven badge sewn onto a larger felt backing. This was standard for 1950s and early 1960s. Machine woven directly onto felt backing is a different type and is very common. I've got a bag of 'em

As for value, maybe $35 to $45. At one point they were being sold by most major surplus companies for around that. On German eBay they are not difficult to find, but postage out of Germany stinks. The camouflage parkas usually go for around $50 to $70.

Steve

[Hugh Zillmann old]

Hello Gentlemen,

Interesting description, don't you think:-

"German (Nazi) 1960-1970 Bundesgrenzchuts Winter Coat - $200 (Stockbridge)"

Steve, you are correct in your comments. Not rare and more 'police' than 'paramilitary'.

More in the nature of a disposal item than a military collectable.

Regards,

Hugh

[TCW 60]

The first green parkas I saw was in the beginning eighties. In the Kommando West they were first issued for the units which protected the government objects in Bonn. The members of the government would not see the police officers wearing camouflaged uniform parts. They looked to military for them.
On duty we are not allowed to use these parkas in green before dark. On the whole day we have to use the greatcoats in green. They are not great against the coldness.

[Guardian 5]

Michael - I don't believe we have corresponded before. Please allow me to welcome you to the forum.

As you can see, there is a very great interest in the BGS. This thread alone has been viewed over 30,000 times.

We are very lucky to have many Bundeswehr veterans who are happy to share information on their service. Visits from former or serving BGS personnel however, are very rare.

From your writing it sounds like you have served in the BGS. If that is the case, we are very happy indeed to have you as a member of the forum.

Please consider your answer about your BGS service very carefully. If you are from that organization, be prepared to be bombarded with questions!

In any event, welcome to the forum and thanks for the information you have provided so far. We look forward to hearing from you again soon.

All the best - TJ Cullinane

[Collectinsteve]

I second the welcome and second the warning about us bombarding you with questions

Steve

[Der Wölfe]

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

I have just slogged through all 27 pages of this thread and I was amazed at what I knew once and had forgotten! So, the slog wasn't wihtout its advantages. My attention was drawn, once again, to this thread when I received my latest BGS Camo parka with the tell-tale thread signs of removed insignia. To make up for that, at least to me, in the same lot was a great set of BGS SEE insignia. Since this is a thread directed at when BGS uniforms were worn I'd like to know what, if any, changes in uniform the BGS SEE went through.
Here is my set of BGS SEE insignia. It includes the cap bage, tunic insignia and a shirt badge which is a lighter shade of blue.

Regards,

Gordon

[Capt. R]

very nice Gordon!

[Hugh Zillmann old]

Hello Gordon,

Second that!

Very nice. Now, what uniform(s) would these go on................

Regards,

Hugh

P.S. Merry Christmas to you all from a balmy 28+ degrees celsius East Coast Australia.