BGS BundesGrenzSchutz

[Asbjoern]

TJ, thanks in advance ! Its allways good to have reserve parts...

Another question on my tunic... any idea how the shoulder boards where aplied ?? As the traces of the removed insignia can be seen clearly there is not the smallest trace of a mounting for these ... no loop for the buttoned type, no left open seem to sew them in, nothing ...


...has anybody a picture of a original, complete tunic of this type ??

Regards,

Jens

[Gordon Craig]

Jens,

Here is an original and complete tunic from my collection. The boards are sewn into place in the shoulder seam as is the arc and arm badge. They are in heavy silver enbroidered wire.

For TJ or Steve,
This uniform came complete with matching trousers and shirt. I need a pair of slip on shoulderboards for the shirt if you have any.

Regards,

Gordon

[Asbjoern]

Thanks, Gordon ! So I´ve to cut the seams open when restoring this tunic (or perhaps look out for a complete one selling this one... )

Jens

[Collectinsteve]

Jens,

Yes, you have to open up the seam in the top of the shoulders as well as about 3/4 of the liner. This gives you access to hand or machine stitch the rank into the uniform. After you get it stitched in very well, then you have to hand stitch the liner back together. This technique was reversed engineered from what I've seen done with other tunics. I've done this a number of times and it's my least favorite thing!!

Gordon,

Sorry... I only have one rank higher for that range. I can probably get you a set. However, I need to know if your shirt takes the 1st or 2nd pattern rank. The difference is the width of the strap. 1st pattern is pure cloth and fairly narrow, 2nd pattern is about twice as wide and has a plastic interior. The transition apparently was very early 1970s as I have had Sumpftarn jackets with both types and that's what I've based the date change on.

Beautiful tunic, BTW!

Lower ranks had woven arm badging, middle officer ranks have silver metallic thread, higher officers have gold metallic thread.

Steve

[Collectinsteve]

Speaking of rank slipons...

The shirt that is down below is definitely not BGS. They never had rank that would have fit those loops. I'm even suspicious that BW rank wouldn't fit. My guess is it was some attempt to mimic a WW2 shirt, just like TJ guessed.

Steve

[Klaus1989]

Jens,
To add to what Steve and Gordon said, the shoulderboards use 16mm buttons on tunic. 17mm buttons are often sold as shoulderboard buttons, but they are Mäntel, not tunics.

regards
Klaus

[Gordon Craig]

Jens,

I'd wait for a complete tunic. I gave up buying tunic with insignia removed because it was so hard to determine the correct insignia to put back on. To confirm what Klaus said, the shoulderboard buttons on my tunic are 16mm

Steve,

I don't have shoulderboards on any of my BGS shirts so it is hard to know which ones to ask you to get for me. The tunic does not have a makers tag in itso I can not date it. Just a small grey nylon strip in the pocket with faint size markings on it. Best I can do is send a picture of the shirt and the measurements of the loops for the slip-ons on the shirt. They measure 2 3/4" long and 1 1/3" wide (inside the tunnel)

Regards,

Gordon

[Collectinsteve]

If I recall correctly the BGS buttons are all smaller than their BW equivalent. BW uniforms have 17mm on the shoulder and 21mm for tunic pockets. I'm pretty sure the BGS/Polizei stuff is 16mm on shoulder and 19mm on tunic pockets. Mantel buttons are also not the same, but they do vary depending on what type of Mantel we're talking about.

Gordon, I'll see if I can dig something up for you. If you have other rank needs, let me know what rank and condition you need them in.

As for securing the buttons I've seen four methods:

1. Sew the button directly onto the strap

2. Sew a plastic dish type button to the metal button

3. A small, purpose made metal ring that the button eye slides onto (like a key ring). The ring has a piece which bisects the ring. It has a slight bump to it which in effect makes the button shaft a bit longer, which in turn makes it easier to button things to. It also spreads the grip of the button evenly along the bottom of the strap.

4. A ring, of various sizes, which is basically a small key ring. Unlike #3 it doesn't have a middle section, which means the shaft isn't lengthened and the ring grips unevenly.

Steve

[Guardian 5]

Gordon - Beautiful tunic!

I don't have any officer rank I'm afraid, just EM/NCO and all are sew-on.

Good luck on the hunt.....

All the best - TJ

[Klaus1989]

Steve,
I meant 17mm button is correct for Wintermantel, which use 21mm buttons. That is most common type, I think. Do you know which type eagle is correct for Wintermantel in late 1950s - woven on felt or felt?

I wish there was source for woven patches on felt back - they are not very common, even on ebay.de. I only have one extra and felt back is not good condition. It also is very hard to find ranks below Wachtmeister, especially older shoulderboards from 1950s, although Wachtmeister ranks are everywhere. I need to restore Wintermantel from late 1950s/early 60s and this is problem. I do not want all my uniforms to be Wachtmeister ranks.

regards
Klaus

[Asbjoern]

Felted vowen patches... Klaus, do you mean the type I have purchased for my jacked ? I have two sets...

Jens

[Klaus1989]

Jens,
I mean cloth patch with green felt sewn on back. I have seen cloth patches without felt back for sale often, but rarely with it. I have only one and felt is torn in some areas.

regards
Klaus

[Collectinsteve]

Jens,

The one Klaus is talking about is in the lower right of this picture:



The one you are talking about is in the lower left of the above picture. It's hard to see from this photo, but the one in the bottom right is a woven badge (similar to the types used until late 2000s) sewn onto a larger green felt backing. As Klaus said, these are quite rare. I've got a couple myself but like Klaus, one is in very tough shape.

Steve

[Huntzman]

Of course I am coming to the party late........ Just finished two months of home renovations

Anyway, I'll chime in a bit.

1. As far as the shirt goes, why do you have a feeling that it is not BGS ? I have BGS ranks that would certainly slip in to that slot.

2. As far as the old patch with wool backing goes, they also came out with a matching "BGS" tab when it was first introduced in 1970.

3. Steve, nice collection of BGS patches, but you do know the gold version is a reproduction. Most likely Pakistan.

Here's a link to my BGS / Bundespolizei collection: http://www.huntzmanpatches.com/germa...zei%28C%29.htm

Needs to be update, have added a bunch of BPol items of late.

Andrew

[Collectinsteve]

Andrew,

I'm not surprised to hear my gold set is a fake. I have only recently found nice close shots of the real things and there is a distinct difference. I'll keep them set aside and not use them for anything If you wish to use my picture for your collection, to show off fakes, please feel free to do that.

I have a question about the felt backed badges. I thought these were pretty much used only in the 1950s and early 1960s. That is not correct?

Steve