West German Helmets

[Jeroen P]

BGS - M35, M53 (with and without vents); grey-green, darkgreen, bluegrey (BGS-See) rough finish

Does anybody know when the transition from smooth to rough finish took place (or the other way round)?

On this video from 1971 they wear the ventless BGS helmets with the pre-1976 colour (after 1976, a more mint green colour was used).

Am I correct that both helmets with smooth (12:38 minutes) and with rough texture (13:00) are being worn in the film?

It was filmed in Lübeck and BGS-units from, amongst others (?), Bavaria, Hessen and Schleswig-Holstein took part.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuzN_DNtUmY

smooth texture:


rough texture:

[Jeroen P]

more with smooth finish:

[Klaus1989]

Hi,
ventless model was original version of M53 helmets. 1953 was introduced the new liner I53 liner, which is welded in shell, so no rivets and first postwar made shells had no vents. Many older M35 helmets from early years/ WW2 surplus also had rivet holes welded closed (but not vents) and adapted to new liner. Because of ventilation problems, postwar shells was produced with vents later, sometime around late 1950s (first photos of it). This have thicker rim to vent than modified WW2 shells. Vented and ventless were still worn, maybe even both manufactured until end of steel helmets in BGS (1990s) - maybe someone with the Baer book can give exact dates?

BGS paint - BGS helmets are textured, mostly in different shades of grey-green. Some were repainted with thick dark green by hand and so texture hard to see, but this not a norm. After ca. 1976-1990s, they were painted "mossgreen" to match new uniforms. Never were "mint-green" (not sure, what you mean with this).

Hope this help.

Regards
Klaus

[Jeroen P]

After ca. 1976-1990s, they were painted "mossgreen" to match new uniforms. Never were "mint-green" (not sure, what you mean with this).

I took the term "mint Green" from the article "Bundesgrenzschutz" on wikipedia.de:

"Die BGS-Helme waren ursprünglich im Farbton RAL 6012 Schwarzgrün gespritzt. Nach der Uniformreform 1976 erfolgte die Färbung im Farbton RAL 6029 Minzgrün".

BGS paint - BGS helmets are textured

Not all of them though? See for example the smooth finish on this BGS helmet (sorry for the large picture). Or is this a police helmet?

[Klaus1989]

I took the term "mint Green" from the article "Bundesgrenzschutz" on wikipedia.de:

"Die BGS-Helme waren ursprünglich im Farbton RAL 6012 Schwarzgrün gespritzt. Nach der Uniformreform 1976 erfolgte die Färbung im Farbton RAL 6029 Minzgrün".

I looked up the RAL and it is correct. In German, the post1976 uniforms are often said to be "moosgrün", but the official RAL for this colour is apparently called "minzgrün". There is several shades of schwarzgrün, that were used, probably supposed to be same colour, but earlier ones are noticeably darker.

Not all of them though? See for example the smooth finish on this BGS helmet (sorry for the large picture). Or is this a police helmet?

Police helmet - models without decal is hard to say (could be RP or NRW?). Not only the smooth paint, but also brown chinstrap. Probably has different liner as well.

Regards
Klaus

[Jeroen P]

Thanks for all the info! It seems I have been confusing Bundesgrenzschutz and police helmets for a long time.

One last question: I take it that this repainted m1942 helmet, which I have been describing as a bgs helmet on my website for years, is in fact a police helmet, due to the smooth finish?

[Klaus1989]

probably police, as BGS M35 are usually textured and are very rare (only used short time in early 1950s). All BGS M35 are wartime produced - most police are postwar copies with larger vent rim, but in early years some wartime overworked for them. Another help would be the liner (BGS M35 with rivets have American style web/leather liners), but it appear, that your example it misses. How the colour compare to your BGS M53 helmet on your website?

Regards
Klaus

[Jeroen P]

These are outdoor shots of my BGS m53 helmet (left) and my reworked ww2 m35 helmet (right).
The colour is very similar.

Although I've noticed that the reworked ww2 helmet on the right is very similar in colour to Joe's police(?) helmet in posts #11 and #19-#20 of this thread.

[Collectinsteve]

more with smooth finish:

I know this is a helmet thread, but I wanted to point out the bottom picture shows two officers wearing brown belts. Just curious if anybody has one. I don't think I've come upon one.

Steve

[Gordon Craig]

Steve,

I noticed the brown belts as well. There was a thread running a couple of years ago about the BGS that talked about the brown belts and I believe a brown holster if memory serve me right. I think Klaus commented on them at the time.

Regards,

Gordon

[Klaus1989]

The helmet is definitely more a police colour. There is not much info on Bepo uniforms and equipments or how it evolved, even in German, so it is hard to ID. But it must be from one of the states, that not used a decal.

On the brown belts: they were worn by ranks from Meister (senior NCOs) upwards to officers. I have never seen one for sale (or the brown holsters). The only Meister/officer equipement, that I have in my collection are a couple early mapcases. All BGS brown leather equipement is very rare for some reason.

Regards
Klaus

[Jeroen P]

The helmet is definitely more a police colour. There is not much info on Bepo uniforms and equipments or how it evolved, even in German, so it is hard to ID. But it must be from one of the states, that not used a decal.

Thank you so much for all the information, you really helped me a lot!

[Reibert-Austria]

Helmet "M53" pattern BGS

Hi, mates !

Reiceived this, (prettyworn), "M53 BGS", (Bundesgrenzschutz"), today.

Maker:
"LS", (Linneman & Schnetzer)

[Reibert-Austria]

2.):

[Reibert-Austria]

3.):