For the Bundeswehr lover in all of us...

[Gordon Craig]

TJ,

Is it just this specific unit patch that you are after or will any unit patch do? Just so I know what to keep my eyes open for in the future. I don't have any unit patches at the present. Something else to research.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

Kalus,

Here is a quote from the kamouflage.net web site. I've corresponded with the guy who runs the site re my truppenversuch uniforms and he seems to be knowledgeable in this area. What is on his site seems accurate.

Regards,

Gordon

During the second half of 1976, the Bundeswehr conducted a series of 'troop trials' (Truppenversuch) in co-operation with the French army. The aim of these trials was to gauge the effectiveness of five newly developed camouflage patterns: Sägezahnmuster; Punktmuster; Flecktarn A (klein); Flecktarn B (groß); and Flecktarn C.
Of these, the first four camouflage designs were four-colour patterns, comprising black, dark green, light-green, olive grey and red earth elements; the main differences between them were the shapes and sizes of the elements. Those used in Sägezahnmuster ('saw-tooth pattern') were reminiscent of blades for a circular saw, but the other three patterns were composed of coloured clumps and dots: Punktmuster featured large clumps and small dots; Flecktarn A (klein) ('dot camouflage A, small') — shown here — featured larger dots and the clumps had a more open, lacy appearance; and Flecktarn B (groß) ('dot camouflage B, large') displayed even larger dots.
The last camouflage pattern, officially labelled Flecktarn C ('dot camouflage C') but also dubbed Schattentarn, was definitely the odd-man-out at the trials. It was a three-colour camouflage pattern of dark green, light green and olive grey, and comprised the outlines of the shapes used in Flecktarn A (klein). The contrast between the colours used is extremely low, and it seems unlikely that this design could ever offer much in the way of a camouflage effect.
Of the five patterns trialled during Truppenversuch, Flecktarn B was adjudged to be the most effective. However, the issue of this camouflage pattern was delayed until after Erprobung 1988 ('Proofing 1988') and the successful conclusion of the 1989 Truppenversuch “Kampfanzug 90” ('Troop Trials, "Battle Suit 90"').
This reasons for this lengthy delay are unclear. One possibility is that the decision was taken so that the Bundeswehr should remain dressed like its NATO partners, who — with the notable exceptions of France and the United Kingdom — wore olive drab uniforms.
Whatever the reasons might actually have been, uniforms camouflaged in Flecktarn B — better known as Bundeswehr-Flecktarnmuster — were not issued to soldiers of the Bundeswehr until 1990.

[Guardian 5]

TJ,

Is it just this specific unit patch that you are after or will any unit patch do? Just so I know what to keep my eyes open for in the future. I don't have any unit patches at the present. Something else to research.

Regards,

Gordon

Thanks Gordon. I'm mainly focused on Panzergrenadierbattalions for now; I have extra artillery and air defense unit patches (velcro back) to trade with.

TJ

[Guardian 5]

I think this cap is an example of the "Punkmuster". The cap was auctioned off at Manion's. I think it realized over $80 USD.

TJ

[Guardian 5]

Side view.

[Gordon Craig]

TJ,

Ok then, Panzergrenadier patches is what you are after. I don't have any reference to tell one from the other unless the unit designation appears on the patches. Does it?
Looks like we have to study the camo patterns on these caps closer. I saw that cap on Manion's and didn't even pay any attention to it as it appeared to be another common item. More the fool I!

Regards,

Gordon

[Klaus1989]

My collection of Bundeswehr Feldjacken and Feldmützen (so far). All are badged up for Heer and that is still an ongoing process - they are missing much insignia. BTW thanks TJ for the insignia that they do have!

From front to back: moleskin Panzergrenadier Stabsunteroffizier (Wurster, Metzingen, 1974), moleskin Obergefreiter (H. Winner & Co. KG, 1985), moleskin Fahnenjunker (W. Merk, Mössingen, 1983) and flecktarn Oberfeldwebel (Altreichenauer Bekleidungsfabrik, 1994). Flecktarn Feldmütze manufactured Albert Kempf GmbH in 1996 and the Feldschiffchen was made in 1987 by Schmidt + Hartlieb. The flecktarn Feldmütze was one of the first pieces of militaria I bought, back in 2004 or 2005.

regards,
Klaus

[Guardian 5]

Early BW & WH Canteens

Gents - In an ongoing discussion that began on the WH equipment page, this posting will attempt to compare post-war BW and West German Polizei field flasks with their WH and Luftwaffe counterparts.

In the top row of this photo, the wartime Luftwaffe canteen is seen on the left with a post-war West Berlin Bereitschaftpolizei canteen on the right.

To my knowledge, the Bundeslauftwaffe did not use blue colored M1931 field flasks at any time in the post-war era. Any field equipment they did use would be olive drab like their counterparts in the Heer. The BEPO field flask is marked "P.Pr.Bln" for Polizei Presidium Berlin. Both field flasks have "Prym" snap closures with the stylized flower logo, but the black paint on the Luftwaffe canteen has long since faded away. The snap clip on the BEPO flask is of an immediately recognizable post-war pattern and will be shown in a follwing post.

On the bottom row, a Wehrmacht field flask is positioned to left of a Bundeswehr M1931 field flask. Note the black cup on the Wehrmacht field flask, which is stamped "JSD 39". It should be noted that WH canteen cups are also found in olive drab. BW canteen cups are always olive drab and are rarely marked. Those that are have post-war dates. The WH field flask has "Prym" snap closures while those on the BW cover are plain black. The WH canteen has leather components of a number of styles and textures, while the BW leather components are uniform. Finally, the WH canteen, like the Luftwaffe example, look like they survived a war. The post-war examples look like they just left the unit supply room.

More pictures to follow - TJ

[Guardian 5]

Luftwaffe & BEPO canteens - rear

On this view, note the immediately recognizable snap clip on the BEPO canteen. Note also the extra leather strap absent on the wartime model.

The felt on the Luftwaffe canteen is worn and of low quality while the BEPO has uniformly fine felt.

TJ

[Guardian 5]

BW & WH canteen - rear

Just as we were getting comfortable with the differences between wartime and post-war canteens, I had to throw some spoilers in the mix.

In this photo, the wartime canteen has the extra leather strap and the civilian looking snap clip. The clip is made of old pot metal however, and the leather has been soaked and dried out many times over. The snap clip on the BEPO canteen shown earlier is made from factory fresh aluminum.

TJ

[Guardian 5]

TJ,

Ok then, Panzergrenadier patches is what you are after. I don't have any reference to tell one from the other unless the unit designation appears on the patches. Does it?
Looks like we have to study the camo patterns on these caps closer. I saw that cap on Manion's and didn't even pay any attention to it as it appeared to be another common item. More the fool I!

Regards,

Gordon

Gordon - I do have some illustrations somewhere, I'll post some examples when I get back next week. Thanks for keeping a look-out.

TJ

[Guardian 5]

My collection of Bundeswehr Feldjacken and Feldmützen (so far). All are badged up for Heer and that is still an ongoing process - they are missing much insignia. BTW thanks TJ for the insignia that they do have!

From front to back: moleskin Panzergrenadier Stabsunteroffizier (Wurster, Metzingen, 1974), moleskin Obergefreiter (H. Winner & Co. KG, 1985), moleskin Fahnenjunker (W. Merk, Mössingen, 1983) and flecktarn Oberfeldwebel (Altreichenauer Bekleidungsfabrik, 1994). Flecktarn Feldmütze manufactured Albert Kempf GmbH in 1996 and the Feldschiffchen was made in 1987 by Schmidt + Hartlieb. The flecktarn Feldmütze was one of the first pieces of militaria I bought, back in 2004 or 2005.

regards,
Klaus

Klaus - Good looking sets! I'll see what I have laying around in the way of extra insignia and name tapes.

Thanks for posting the names of the manufacturers, I want to compare them with mine. I'll try and put them up when I get back from another business trip next week.

Take care - TJ

[Klaus1989]

TJ:
I have a very odd canteen that fits none of your generalisations about German canteens, as I have already told you. It has olive cup and brown felt cover, shows considerable wear and has Pyrm snaps. However, makers marks are absent other than S.H.B. on snaps, clip is like postwar and leather straps are in postwar style. It is certainly a mystery. I will try to get photos by next week.

Klaus

[Klaus1989]

.

[Uncle Kurt]

Hallo,
Sorry, The field flask sind no West German Army!

feldgrau ist BGS

and in Blau grau Bereitschafts Polizei and THW

BW hat NUR 1956 a kokonat Bottel
für eine ganz kurze Zeit.