For the Bundeswehr lover in all of us...

[Guardian 5]

It is difficult to make out, but I believe the rank of the individual to the right of the gunner is a feldwebel wearing his rank on his epaulette.

Uwe - I put the feldwebel epaulettes on the mannequin because of Rosignoli's information and what I could find out from studying period photographs.

I can understand if you're still irritated, but at least you know the "method behind the madness."

Thanks for putting up with me - TJ

[Guardian 5]

Danke Uwe!

Beautiful tunic!

I concede the point. I will replace the shoulder boards with pin-on rank.

Thanks for the good discussion.

TJ

Hi TJ,

a forum is for discussions.

"NCOs from the rank of feldwebel and above wore their rank on their epaulettes..."

Yes, but the first time in metal



And this is the second version for officers (Lt - Oberst), the stars in silver.
The first version is with golden stars (altgold).

This an original worn fatigue dress from 1956, completely with the trousers.

Regards
Uwe

[Klaus1989]

Nice early tunics Uwe and TJ! I wish I could find this pattern.

I do not think Uwe is really "irritated." I think he meant to say the rank patches bothered him and ended up translating it wrong.

regards
Klaus

[Huntzman]

Yeah, I think the translation came across wrong.

Trust me, as one who has used translation programs in the past I am very leery of them.

I'm always afraid that writing something as innocent as "I love bacon, lettuce and tomato sandwiches" gets translated into "I enjoy relations with pigs in gardens"

Sometimes, the lack of vocal inflection in posts creates misunderstandings.......

Andrew

[speedytop]

Hi,

ich war irritiert, aber nicht verärgert!

Okay? Now you can/must translate it (bemused?).

Regards
Uwe

[Gordon Craig]

TJ, Uwe,

Nice early tunics and an interesting discussion on rank placement in the early days. I have never held one of these in my hands but I sure would like to. Rossignoli is ok for general info but I am afraid he does not cover all instances as we have seen here.

Regards,

Gordon

[Klaus1989]

Hi,

ich war irritiert, aber nicht verärgert!

Okay? Now you can/must translate it (bemused?).

Regards
Uwe

So you were irritated, just not in way TJ thought. I never trust translating machines - they cannot even conjugate verbs correctly in translation. Fortunately I understand German and do not need to use these devices. To show:

My translation of Uwes quote: "I was irritated but not annoyed!"

Babel Fish's translation: "I was irritated, but does not annoy!"

regards
Klaus

[Viktor]

Genossen,
Here's a big pile of my Bundeswehr Evaluation scale of Issue...
You will Note odd variants of some items, plus the odd BGS item mixed in...

Enjoy...

[Guardian 5]

Nice Selection!

Victor - Nice selection of fascist/revanchist field gear.

It's very frustrating sorting through the numerous variations of BW/BGS field gear without an authoritative source to guide your efforts.

Thanks for sharing photos of you collection. A veritable ocean of ink has been expended on analyzing DDR/Wehrmacht field gear, hopefully you'll join us in our attempts to definitize the BW and BGS "scale of issue".

Take care - TJ

[Guardian 5]

Fellow Bundeswehr Lovers - I've been trying to figure out what type of entrenching tools were used by the Bundeswehr before adoption in 1959 of the ubiquitous oliv model manufactured by the Idealspaten Company and the present tri-fold model.

The e-tool in the far left of the picture is supposedly "early Bundeswehr". It has no markings. The blade was originally painted black and later painted olive drab. The carrier is of a Wehrmacht type and is covered with TR stempels and acceptance stamps. It was made by Carl Busse of Mainz. The date was originally in the forties but was over stamped "1952". This tells me that the carrier was refurbished at some point in the fifties and issued to the Landespolizei or the BGS. According to our friends on the Wehrmacht Field Gear Forum, the spade itself is Swiss, as the Wehrmacht models never made use of the steel band at the base of the blade.

The e-tool in the middle is somewhat of a mystery. According to the German dealer I purchased it from in Heidelberg, it is either an experimental BW model or a modern day variation of the longer spade traditionally issued to pionier troops.

It is marked as follows:

- "1. P_ L " is branded into the handle. The middle letter is unintelligible. Could this be a Polizei or BW pionier unit stamp?
- The numbers "5120-12-120-7839" are stamped into the base of the blade.
- "MB 36793" is found embossed between the pick and the blade.

According to the dealer, the spade was carried in a container similar to the one used by the British Army in World War II. The paint color seems closer to the BGS forest green than BW Oliv.

I'd love to hear from anyone with information on pre-1959 BW/BGS entrenching tools.

Thanks - TJ

[Guardian 5]

Another view of the mystery e-tool.

[Gordon Craig]

TJ,
I have never seen anything quite like the spade in the centre. Very odd construction. If it is German it would seem logical that the the missing letter would be o for 1.Pol. However, the one in front of Pol. would normally indicate the first company in a specific battalion. Unusual to see anything marked to a company without the battalion being indicated after the Pol. I'll be interested to hear what other have to say.

Regards,

Gordon

[Guardian 5]

Fellow Collectors - When I first this bread bag on Manion's I was really excited.

It looked like the definitive "early Bundeswehr" bread bag. Of course, the BW use of bread bags is very much open to contention. Various photos of Bundeswehr soldiers on maneuvers published earlier in the thread suggest it may have been possible, but definitive proof is lacking.

But when I saw the leather components of this example, I thought this could be it. The leather looked very similar to the green colored leather found on oliv/M1959 e-tool carrier and field flasks.

Now that I finally received it, I'm not so sure anymore. Please examine the following photos and let me know what you think. The first is taken right off the Manion's website.

Thanks - TJ

[Guardian 5]

This is the picture that hooked me. The leather on the closure strap looked very similiar to the leather found on oliv pattern e-tools and field flasks.

TJ

[Guardian 5]

TJ,
I have never seen anything quite like the spade in the centre. Very odd construction. If it is German it would seem logical that the the missing letter would be o for 1.Pol. However, the one in front of Pol. would normally indicate the first company in a specific battalion. Unusual to see anything marked to a company without the battalion being indicated after the Pol. I'll be interested to hear what other have to say.

Regards,

Gordon

Gordon - Welcome back from Cyprus!

I hope you enjoyed yourself. The winter in North America has been very North American this year.

I agree with your assessment of the mystery spade. I've never had my paws on a WW II British entrenching tool, but I heard this one is similiar. Does Hormann make any mention of it in his "deluxe" BW Uniform book?

Thanks - TJ