Craig Gottlieb & "Nazi War Diggers"

[Johnny R]

I have brought this to the attention of professional archaeologist associations and other academic groups. A lot of pressure will be levied now against this show. Archaeologists are very angry.

[Luis22]

I don't see anything wrong with this...the purpose is historical just like the show on the US TV called Diggers. Museums are full of robbed grave items, including the dead himself (mommies) This happens with every ancient civilization in this case I in my opinion opens a window on important events just like any other archaeological study.

[cricketchris44]

I have brought this to the attention of professional archaeologist associations and other academic groups. A lot of pressure will be levied now against this show. Archaeologists are very angry.

Thank you for the phone number will call them.

[Jägermarty]

My Opa never came home from fighting the Russians... It's horrid thinking that could be his bones they're playing with. I believe in respect, whether it's to the dead or living. Look at the Arizona, near Pearl Harbor. Same point. A soldiers death bed should not be publicly aired and desecrated. Anyone who thinks otherwise has questionable morals.

My Opa is buried out there too somewhere.
All this digging going on there is disgusting.
They should be left alone!

[eldenwaff]

What they are doing is so, so disgusting.

I feel the only reason why they are doing whst they are doing is for television. If someone offered them the chance to professionally find soldiers human remains for proper reberial without all the tv cameras and no personal gain would they do it? I know Craig Gottlieb would most probably not.

I am all for finding soldiers remains and giving them a proper burial in a marked grave but the way they are going about it is just disturbing and really saddening to watch. These soldiers made the ultimate sacrifice and deserve a lot more respect than what these baboons are doing to their remains.

Just my opinion but when one of the diggers said it was an arm bone, I feel he said that because it was next to a skull so he assumed straight off it was an arm bone without seeing it first, and then Craig pressed it against his own body parts to explain it is a leg bone. Craig shouldn't have done that,

There is a large, very influential element which believes that any German who was alive in the years 1939-1945 deserves nothing but eternal condemnation and scorn. They would obviously never run a show of amateur treasure hunters poking around for bones at Auschwitz or Gettysburg, they would in fact be in jail if they tried - But no problem desecrating a Germans war grave, from the theatric title it would appear that they not only condone it but encourage it.
And thats the hazard here, this will no doubt encourage black digging, and most of those by nature will not care who they are disturbing, only the relics.

Hard to believe that a renowned and iconic organization would lend their once fair name to such ghoulish shenanigans, there is very little which surprise me these days. No surprise at all Gottlieb is taking center stage here, he is well known to be driven by ego, $$ and publicity, seems to have intensified with his stint of Pawn Stars ,, And he has no problem at all throwing his Jewishness into the mix as some kind of weak excuse for his tasteless endeavors.

[Kelly w]

My Opa never came home from fighting the Russians... It's horrid thinking that could be his bones they're playing with. I believe in respect, whether it's to the dead or living. Look at the Arizona, near Pearl Harbor. Same point. A soldiers death bed should not be publicly aired and desecrated. Anyone who thinks otherwise has questionable morals.

I do agree with you about how the bones were handled by this dufus team. It probably happens though all the time, just not put on camera for the world to see. Still I think that many have jumped the gun here because it's CG. I mean most have only seen 30 seconds of it or none at all, only a very few saw 10 minutes. I wish more could have been seen before people condemned it to see NG's stand on it and what organizations were involved. NG fire control has put out statements concerning this that sound good.

[NickG]

I do agree with you about how the bones were handled by this dufus team. It probably happens though all the time, just not put on camera for the world to see. Still I think that many have jumped the gun here because it's CG. I mean most have only seen 30 seconds of it or none at all, only a very few saw 10 minutes. I wish more could have been seen before people condemned it to see NG's stand on it and what organizations were involved. NG fire control has put out statements concerning this that sound good.

I agree with Kelly about jumping on the band wagon because of the parties involved. Many MIA's are being found by amatures on a weekly basis, just not documented. I personally witnessed such an event in Germany. The Volksbund certainly does not have full time "professional archeologists" on their recovery teams out in the field in search of remains...This is not archeology, this is MIA recovery but it should be handled by people with experience (basic skeletal knowledge) and with respect and not commercially broadcasted for profit by using self proclaimed fame hungry TV experts....but local authorities were involved to supervise and permit the event...

Finding remains in a caved in fox hole or collapsed trench in my book is not grave robbing...not opening up graves....yes its a field grave but its not an official designated grave! Some comments are just a little to harsh...I wonder if it will be pulled because of the negativity...At least some MIA's were recovered which is always a good thing.

[Johnny R]

No one who is not a professionally trained archaeologist or forensic osteologist should be allowed to excavate or handle human remains. Period. I am licensed by the State I live in and am only one of 30 or so people here allowed to work with Native american and Euro-American human burials for the reason that it is a complicated and ethical demanding task. This is not a "gee this is really neato" task. Battlefields are being destroyed and archaeological/scientific information is lost not to mention the unnecessary destruction of wartime burial sites. As a general rule, burials should never be disturbed unless they are threatened by construction etc.

I do not care who does it, or about Craig, it does not matter. No one should be doing this.

[Mil-Archive]

NG fire control has put out statements concerning this that sound good.

Here is an excerpt from the National Geographic statement :

Unfortunately, a video excerpt from our show posted on our website did not provide important context about our team’s methodology. This series operates in direct conjunction with organizations officially licensed to excavate battlefield sites and adhered to their procedures. All of the excavation featured in the series, including handling of human remains, was supervised by representatives from these organizations, which act under the authority of their country’s government and are also backed by the official German and Russian war graves commissions. Our team’s operation is in direct contrast to illegal digging and looting of battle sites, commonly referred to as “black digging,” which is a real and ongoing concern in these areas. Despite misinformation being circulated, our show will in fact demonstrate the need for the activities portrayed to be done in an authorized and legal manner. This will be a point of emphasis in the opening of each show, and the series will be complemented by a robust website further exercising this point. In addition, during filming, our production crew remained in close contact with local museums, including the Latvian War Museum. All relics uncovered by the team were cataloged and photographed and are now in safe storage. Items have been offered to museums. No items were trafficked or sold. The human remains found in the series will be reburied with due ceremony in military cemeteries under the supervision of the ;relevant war graves commissions.

Source :http://natgeotv.com/za/nazi-war-diggers/about

We now know from other sources (including archaeology blogs and multiple other threads on this subject) that the Volksbund has distanced itself from this, the Latvian museum not only did not authorise it but actually tried to stop it and that at least one of the participants has sold items from these digs (including posting on WAF when still a member). As far as I am concerned the main pillars of the NG defence are now completely undermined. Basically they replied with lawyer-careful wording in order to intimate some kind of authorisation and legitimacy. Hiding behind (or hinting at) the names of reputable organisations which want nothing to do with them. I really don't get why anyone would want to defend this scumbag behaviour by all involved. NG could have made an honest response but chose not to. They didn't make this reality tv show they just bought it and put their name on top. The NG response to the criticism they've provoked has been to try to 'brazen it out' and bluff their way through rather than the other option which would have been to reassess their position, implement a policy change and cut their losses.

[Kelly w]

No one who is not a professionally trained archaeologist or forensic osteologist should be allowed to excavate or handle human remains. Period. I am licensed by the State I live in and am only one of 30 or so people here allowed to work with Native american and Euro-American human burials for the reason that it is a complicated and ethical demanding task. This is not a "gee this is really neato" task. Battlefields are being destroyed and archaeological/scientific information is lost not to mention the unnecessary destruction of wartime burial sites. As a general rule, burials should never be disturbed unless they are threatened by construction etc.

I do not care who does it, or about Craig, it does not matter. No one should be doing this.

Now John do you really think that a professionally trained team would be called out in every country for every body recovery? Too much and to expensive a task and some of these East Europe contries are broke. What you want is just not reality as much as you would like it to be.

And as mentioned many times, war grave sites, field graves, mass body dump sites, must and will be dug up in every occasion in search for the identities of the fallen. We owe them that much.

[Jean-Loup]

"No one who is not a professionally trained archaeologist or forensic osteologist should be allowed to excavate or handle human remains. Period. I am licensed by the State I live in and am only one of 30 or so people here allowed to work with Native american and Euro-American human burials for the reason that it is a complicated and ethical demanding task. This is not a "gee this is really neato" task. Battlefields are being destroyed and archaeological/scientific information is lost not to mention the unnecessary destruction of wartime burial sites. As a general rule, burials should never be disturbed unless they are threatened by construction etc.
I do not care who does it, or about Craig, it does not matter. No one should be doing this."


So according to you all the missing soldiers should not be exhumed and identified unless there will be construction on their grave? It seems that many of your collegue archaeologists do not share your opinion that no grave should be disturbed as they regularly dig up entire necropoles to study them.
How many archaeologists even express any interest in WWII era graves? Are the handfull of those who are interested to be expected to exhume the several dozens of thousands of bodies the Volksbund claims to exhume each year? Who is going to pay for this?
Although much can be learned from WWII graves, expecting archaeologists to be responsible for 100% of WWII era exhumations is out of touch with reality.
In France bodies are regularly exhumed from cemeteries in order to make room as space is limited. According to you this should also only be done by archaeologists or forensic anthropologists because they are excavating remains?
It is time to get off your white horse.

[MMM]

Firstly I think NG should pull this trash TV and issue a fulsome public apology.

After doing this NG and the UK Production Company should donate an amount equivalent to two or three times the cost of making the series between the Volksbund and other similar organisations.

The 4 stooges should then also donate their fees and expenses for the programme (plus any money made from selling the artifacts they misappropriated) to similar organisations and also make comprehensive public apologies.

Then and only then might it be possible that any of them may retain a shred of dignity from this tawdry affair.

But will this happen? I very much doubt it. The chances are about the same as finding the remains of my grandfather in law who is missing in action in this area since WW2.


Regards

MMM

[SMP]

I was one who saw the whole vid . Craig's fake tears made me puke.

[Mark C. Yerger]

I was one who saw the whole vid . Craig's fake tears made me puke.

Fake tears are bad enough, I'm embarrassed to be a member of the same species he is.

[Mil-Archive]

NG have indefinitely pulled 'Nazi War Diggers'

Looks like the extent of widespread disgust at this has finally been heard at National Geographic :

March 31, 2014, 7:08 pm

National Geographic Channel said Monday that it would “indefinitely” pull a planned television series on unearthing Nazi war graves after days of blistering criticism from archeologists and others who said the show handled the dead with macabre disrespect.

The channel said that after “consulting with colleagues” at the National Geographic Society, it would not broadcast the series, “Nazi War Diggers,” in May as scheduled “while questions raised in recent days regarding accusations about the program can be properly reviewed.” The show was to have been broadcast globally except in the United States.

National Geographic Channel International had commissioned four episodes of the show, in which two British metal detecting specialists, a Polish relics hunter, and an American, Craig Gottlieb, who deals in Nazi World War II artifacts, hunt for the graves of German and Red Army soldiers on the Eastern Front.

National Geographic Channel issued a statement Friday defending the show and saying the criticism was premature, based on early publicity materials that “did not provide important context about our team’s methodology.” The channel pulled those materials from its website.

That did not appease archeologists, battlefield historians and others, who have mounted a social-media and a letter-writing campaign aimed in particular at the National Geographic Society to derail the show.

The channel said in its Friday statement that the Latvian government had approved the team’s work, which took place on Latvian and Polish soil. But the critics contacted the Latvian War Museum, which said in a statement that it had opposed the show.

National Geographic also said that none of the items dug up during filming would be sold but instead would be donated to war museums. The critics however found a posting on a military collectors’ online forum in which Mr. Gottlieb described locating a Latvian war helmet in June and preparing it for sale.

“This is treasure hunting not archaeology,” said Tony Pollard, director of the Center for Battlefield Archaeology at the University of Glasgow, who has appeared on National Geographic programs and other documentaries about unearthing war dead. “I have seen human remains brandished like trophies before, but in dodgy Youtube videos. The trailer on the Internet was absolutely shocking, and very damaging for National Geographic.”

In its statement, the National Geographic Channel said that “while we support the goal of the series, which is to tell the stories of long lost and forgotten soldiers,” it takes “seriously the questions that have been asked.”

Source :
http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/20...iggers-series/