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**MMM** · 03-28-2014, 12:39 PM

Make you wonder what sort of qualification you need to get a licence?

One of Gottliebs retard digger chums has police recorded "form" here in the UK for destroying an ancient burial site.

Maybe the authorities in these places just need you to hear a ping on your detector and see if you wet you pants and then hey presto the licence is given.

I would not trust Gottlieb and his buddies to sit the right direction on a toilet let alone deal with human remains in a meaningful or honest way.

These are seriously sick individuals who bring no credit to those that interact/transact with them and just tarnish anyone with a similar interest by their (assumed and pretend) association with any aspect of military history.

The fact the goon already had a way out planned through Finland for his "artifacts" shows he has duped the authorities and cannot be trusted even over a dime transaction.

If Gottleib or any of his retard digger friends can show they hold a nationally accreditated qualification related to archeology then I will retract my comments about them; but honestly guys; I will not hold my breath waiting for you to do so as we know you cannot pony up any meaningful qualifications between you.

Next thing is he will be shipping his zyklon cans with free "self authenticating jewish remains" for every 2 cans purchased.

I would vote to send him to the chair but then he is the cowardly sort that would blub on the way to it.

Regards

MMM

**WEISNER** · 03-28-2014, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by J. Wraith View Post

Closest combat scenario's for the man include a bathroom stall in Louisville, and a French restaurant at this years S.O.S. I am not sure of the medal designations for these, possibly the " The Order of the Snail " and the " Urinal Combat Clasp/w Toilet Tart Star "

Do tell about the "French restaurant" incident please! I think the bathroom tune up was years ago yes?

Kevin

**J. Wraith** · 03-28-2014, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by WEISNER View Post

Do tell about the "French restaurant" incident please! I think the bathroom tune up was years ago yes?

Kevin

The man by the accounts of many has become increasingly emboldened and increasingly arrogant and even abusive to everyone from waiters to bartenders. He is a star and requires a level of service due to a man of his status. The incident which made the rounds at the show involved said individual approaching another collectors table and verbally abusing him and inciting or baiting him with remarks about his wife or girlfriend. A confrontation ensued with Helmut Weitze somehow holding back the guy who was ready to bury the movie star right into the floor. Another incident has him drunkenly trying to manhandle another dealers girlfriend causing some issues as well.

Of course this is off topic, but with that you can ask around and find the witnesses. As of now he is digging up dead soldiers for a resume addendum and he should have two resume's. What Nat Geo is doing here is quite interesting and about as classy as their movie star.

**Jean-Loup** · 03-28-2014, 01:22 PM

"Compare what we are talking about to this noble effort (with refreshing objectivity):
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-832063.html
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-914093.html "

Actualy, I can tell you that the quality of the work done by the people in your links (Volksbund) is of a level barely above that of the Nazi War Diggers. Volksbund exhumations are conducted by individuals with little training, often in conditions similar to what was seen on the NG clip. Diggers are often locals, and items found with the dead often end up on the collector market (for bodies dug up in the east). In fact, ironicaly, the bodies found by the NG team were probably handed over to the Volksbund, and are probably counted in official statistics as Volkbund found bodies.

Archaeologically speaking, what the Volksbund does with thousands of bodies every year is just as catastrophic as what the NG team was doing. As an example, here is an exhumation they performed last year in France (thanks to the work of a local historian). As can be seen, there is also no recording of context, and bones are also pulled out of the ground as soon as they appear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDHI...FuYijrOVOxKDoQ

In the east, and few people seem to realise this, Volksbund cemeteries are in fact often no more then giant mass graves. They locate bodies buried individualy during the war, exhume them in primitive maner, and then bury them in a common grave. The only positive result is that bodies are identified, and family can go and visit the (mass)grave where they are reburied, with no individual cross. The Volksbund manages to make their work look good because they are 'official', and because they are experts in press relations, but if you scratch off the paint, what you see is in fact very ugly. If the Volksbund was responsible for managing US war dead, there would have been a huge scandal long ago. In fact, they have had a few scandals, but not many, as nobody cares about German war dead: http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/tsche...-a-407210.html

So the main difference between the 'noble effort' of the Volksbund and the NG diggers, does not lie in the methodology used, nor in the final result; it lies in the intent. The Volksbund's main motivation is to find missing bodies to identify them, while the NG diggers (at least CG) do not hide that money and relics is their number one concern. We know Craig's personality well enaugh from this forum, and nobody would want his untrustworthy buisness man hands exhuming the dead.
Intent is very important in life. Intent is what makes the difference between rape and making love for example.

Another big difference with the NG team is that Volksbund exhumations are conducted in an atmosphere of respect, at least when the cameras are rolling, and not one of children fooling around with bones without even having the most basic knowleadge of anatomy. What NG was doing in that clip was profiting from a war dead to create a sensationalistic and mediocre reality TV show for uneducated audiences thousands of miles away.

Another unacceptable aspect of what NG did is that they claimed their show was archeological, which is obviously is not. Archeology means working with scientific method, publishing results, working for historical reasons, and not for monetary gain. These criteria are not followed in the NG program.
Sure, they are helping find some missing soldiers, but in completely unarchaeological manner. Their claim to archeology is therefore a complete fraud, and they had to be very naive to think nobody would notice.

**Killerbee** · 03-28-2014, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by Jean-Loup View Post

"Compare what we are talking about to this noble effort (with refreshing objectivity):
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-832063.html
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-914093.html "

Actualy, I can tell you that the quality of the work done by the people in your links (Volksbund) is of a level barely above that of the Nazi War Diggers. Volksbund exhumations are conducted by individuals with little training, often in conditions similar to what was seen on the NG clip. Diggers are often locals, and items found with the dead often end up on the collector market (for bodies dug up in the east). In fact, ironicaly, the bodies found by the NG team were probably handed over to the Volksbund, and are probably counted in official statistics as Volkbund found bodies.

Archaeologically speaking, what the Volksbund does with thousands of bodies every year is just as catastrophic as what the NG team was doing. As an example, here is an exhumation they performed last year in France (thanks to the work of a local historian). As can be seen, there is also no recording of context, and bones are also pulled out of the ground as soon as they appear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDHI...FuYijrOVOxKDoQ

In the east, and few people seem to realise this, Volksbund cemeteries are in fact often no more then giant mass graves. They locate bodies buried individualy during the war, exhume them in primitive maner, and then bury them in a common grave. The only positive result is that bodies are identified, and family can go and visit the (mass)grave where they are reburied, wth no individual cross. The Volksbund manages to make their work look good because they are 'official', and because they are experts in press relations, but if you scratch of the paint, what you see is in fact very ugly. If the Volksbund was responsible for managing US war dead, there would have been a huge scandal long ago.

So the main difference between the 'noble effort' of the Volksbund and the NG diggers, does not lie in the methodology used, nor in the final result; it lies in the intent. The Volksbund's main motivation is to find missing bodies to identify them, while the NG diggers (at least CG) do not hide that money and relics is their number one concern. We know Craig's personality well enaugh from this forum, and nobody would want his dirty buisness man hands exhuming the dead.
Intent is very important in life. Intent is what makes the difference between rape and making love for example.

Another big difference with the NG team is that Volksbund exhumations are conducted in an atmosphere of respect, at least when the cameras are rolling, and not one of children fooling around with bones without even having the most basic knowleadge of anatomy. What NG was doing in that clip was profiting from a war dead to create a sensationalistic and mediocre reality TV show for uneducated audiences thousands of miles away.

Excellent post JL and well concluded.

**Jean-Loup** · 03-28-2014, 01:48 PM

National Geographic has clearly been made aware of how destructive to their image this show will be, and are attempting damage control. The initial 'tallent' biographies were written in such a manner that one had difficulty believeing they were actualy real, and not a sort of parody.

For the benefit of posterity, let us see what 24 hours have changed to the biographies of the tallents.

Note that CG, the man who compared Hitler's hat to the Mona Lisa on TV without blinking, has gone from being somebody who sells nazi relics for big bucks, to being a historian and a military field officer.

Attached Files

**Jean-Loup** · 03-28-2014, 01:49 PM

More damage control by National Geographic.

Attached Files

**Jean-Loup** · 03-28-2014, 01:51 PM

Whoever was writting these biographies clearly has no clue what archaeology is.

Unfortunately I didnt have the reflex of saving the video, but I am sure many other did that, and it will be going viral despit NG's current attempts at censoring it.

JL

Attached Files

**Bob Carter** · 03-28-2014, 02:04 PM

More damage control on the NG website

RESPONSIBLE METAL DETECTING

Kris, Craig, Stephen & Adrian

We headed to the battlefields of the Eastern Front on a special mission. We wanted to uncover the less well-known stories of World War Two before they are looted or lost over time. Our aim was to excavate battle relics - handing them over to the authorities for safe keeping and burying the dead with honour.

This isn’t an average day out metal detecting.

We worked alongside organisations that are licensed to dig battlefield sites, operating only with permission from their governments. Our permits had to be approved by many different authorities and take months, sometimes years, to obtain.

But it was our love of metal detecting and Second World War history that brought us to these wild frontier lands – and this love began, like most hobbies, at home. We are addicted to it. Every time our detectors bleep we are transported back to feeling like a child again with adventure in the blood. You really never know what you're going to find when you go out, and because of that it is consistently interesting and thrilling.

Why We Hunt History
History surrounds us. Sometimes the smallest find can unlock a history that you never knew about or knew you could be interested in. There is something extraordinary about digging up an artefact or relic that has been buried in the ground, untouched since its previous owner dropped it. It’s something Adrian calls the ‘power of place’.

With that in mind, here are some tips to keep metal detecting a positive and enjoyable hobby:

1. Check the Law
The laws regarding the use of metal detectors, or even the act of digging a hole to recover a relic, vary from country to country. Some have very strict laws regarding the use of detectors, which can result in heavy fines or even imprisonment if ignored. Others protect the artefacts themselves, so even an item found on the surface cannot be removed. Others prohibit the act of digging to find, or attempting to recover, a relic. It is essential that you check the laws of the land you intend to detect in – just saying “you didn’t know” will never stand up in a Court of Law.

2. Get Permission Before You Hunt
It may seem obvious but, if you don’t own the land that you want to dig on, you must ask permission. All land has an owner, even so-called ‘common’ land in the UK. Trespassing is illegal. If you don’t get permission, you are breaking the law. Always ask the landowner beforehand. We all think that part of the excitement of the search is in the preparation. Working out where you want to dig and why, and explaining this to the person who owns the land to get their permission, is all part of what makes you a real digger.

3. Think about where you are digging
We’ve only been able to access the battlefields of the Eastern Front because we’ve been working with organisations licensed to excavate these sites and acting under the authority of the country’s government. There were some places that we would never be allowed to dig – for example, sites of specific historical interest. Many sites are covered by specific laws, which prohibit any activity that may disturb relics and artefacts in the ground or removal of items. You can often check on the status of the land you want to search by contacting the local government office.

4. Things that go bang
Battlefields of the Eastern Front remain dangerous places. Just because an item has been buried in the ground for 70 years, doesn’t make it safe – in fact the opposite is more likely to be true, many items of ordnance become more dangerous over time. Because of the high risk of unexploded ordnance in many of these places, we had an Army Bomb Disposal unit on stand-by.

Wherever you dig in Europe and in the UK there is always a chance you can stumble across unexploded ordnance. It doesn’t matter how old, rusty or safe the grenade, bullet, artillery shell or mortar seems – if it looks grenade, bullet, shell or mortar like, it can still go bang. If you find any suspicious objects – STOP EVERYTHING IMMEDIATELY. Do not disturb the item. Evacuate to at least 200 metres and get professional help.

Stephen has been digging WW2 relics for more than twenty years and always follows one simple rule that has kept him safe all that time. He says, ‘If you can’t be 100% sure, (and I mean 100%, not 90% or even 99%), that what you are digging is ‘safe’, stop digging and call the authorities. No relic is worth a finger, hand, arm, foot, leg or LIFE’.

5. Fill in Your Holes / Clean up After Yourself
The War Diggers rule is: ‘leave no trace’. No matter where you search, whether it is on an Eastern Front battlefield with a digger or in someone’s back garden, we leave the site as if it was our own land. Fill your holes in and take rubbish you find away with you (whether it’s yours or not).

6. Finding and Returning
There’s one thing that all diggers are good at – or should be good at: finding stuff. If you find things that aren’t what you are looking for and could belong to someone else – keys, tools, personal objects – then return them to the landowner. There’s a chance your hobby could make someone’s day. Also if you find something that appears archeologically significant or valuable you should tell the landowner.

If you are digging in England, then you should then take your find to a local museum or report it to your local Finds Liaison officer, to ascertain whether the find comes under the definition of treasure. If it does, it must be deposited either at the museum or at the direction of the coroner. If you do not follow the correct procedure for items of treasure, the Treasure Valuation Committee may reduce your portion of any reward due. You could also be fined or even imprisoned.

The Portable Antiquities Scheme website www.finds.org.uk is a treasure trove of useful detecting information.

If you come across items from the Second World War that can be directly linked to a person involved in the conflict, you should try and return them to their direct descendants. Regardless of how long ago an item was lost, someone somewhere once treasured it. Returning the item to them or their family, will bring much happiness. You may also find out a far richer history than you could have ever imagined when you dug that item out of the soil.

Finally, remember the Eastern Front is where some of the most bloodiest and most desperate battles were fought. Millions of German and Soviet soldiers and their weapons still lie where they fell and we were working with organisations which have the specific task to locate the deceased and bury them with honour.

We were all working in accordance with the European Convention on the Protection of Cultural Heritage, which means –

i. If human remains are accidently uncovered, they are reported to the local police / local authority dealing with cultural heritage
ii. If human remains are knowingly going to be excavated, then the organisation in charge of the excavation needs to have a license.

If you are on a dig and uncover remains, do report this immediately to the local police.

7. Preserving relics
So you’ve ticked all the above, recovered relics safely and lawfully, and want to stop them corroding away to dust. Good for you! However, it isn’t as easy as it seems. Get advice from people that know what they’re doing by researching techniques on the internet. There are numerous sites and forums devoted to preserving WW2 relics, which you need to find and use as a knowledge base. Don’t do anything until you have researched how to preserve your relic, or you won’t have the relic for very long.

8. Archaeological and National Historic Sites
Sites of archeological significance have been given that title for a reason – they contribute significantly to that country’s history and should be left to professional archeologists to study. History is everywhere – so there are plenty of other places to metal detect. Should you stumble across an historically significant site – then contact the local authorities and follow their advice. Misguided digging has the potential to lose history forever – which is exactly the opposite of our mission to preserve the past. By respecting the laws, avoiding sites of archeological significance and only detecting when you have permission helps ensure that we can all continue to dig in the future.

9. Detector Choice
All of us use many different types of detector. It doesn’t matter how much or how little it costs. What matters is knowing your detector and what it is telling you. Only time spent listening to the different tones coming through the headset will transform those frequencies into songs. Once your metal detector is singing to you – telling you whether what’s under the ground is a bit of rubbish near the surface or something buried deeper that’s far more interesting – then you are on your way to becoming a real detectorist. Money can never buy you that.

**Bob Carter** · 03-28-2014, 02:06 PM

This arm bone's big, huh ?

**Seigfried** · 03-28-2014, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by DonC View Post

Given the title, it is a lame attempt to attract viewers by tossing "Nazi" in there, although that might actually better describe the diggers themselves and not their subjects...

Don

True - occasionally though I see sellers on the stand describing their articles as 'Nazi' in the thread title and I just think 'IDIOT'.

**Seigfried** · 03-28-2014, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by Bob Carter View Post

This arm bone's big, huh ?

I'd like to beat the c**t round the head with it, and stick that on youtube!

**kefru177** · 03-28-2014, 02:31 PM

"We headed to the battlefields of the Eastern Front on a special mission. We wanted to uncover the less well-known stories of World War Two before they are looted or lost over time. Our aim was to excavate battle relics - handing them over to the authorities for safe keeping and burying the dead with honour"

yes I can see the care offered to this soldiers remains as Craig uses all his strength to pull the leg bone from the ground

and then plays with it

**TP Alexander** · 03-28-2014, 02:33 PM

Maybe, in the next season, they can go to Viet Nam and stop off in Hue, Khe Sanh, Long Binh or Bienhua and do a little digging. They could run up to Dien Bien Phu and dig up some Frenchmen. Or go over to Cambodia and visit the killing fields. It really should make no difference to these ghouls. They should be working for Dr. Frankenstein!

**kefru177** · 03-28-2014, 02:38 PM

Breaking news - Gotlieb finds Hitler's skull with his second elite archaeology team in season 2 of Nazi War Diggers

This is self authenticating and will shortly be for sale.

Announcement

Craig Gottlieb & "Nazi War Diggers"

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