Originally posted by Sepp45
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Didn't you read? It was a clear case of of a "self-authenticating artefact"!
Last edited by Dietrich Maerz; 01-27-2014, 10:08 PM. -
IF its real, very interesting, I certainly would have no way of knowing, probably neither would a good 97 percent of people on the planet. Something like this does not self authenticate, just the thought reminds me of when Stern or Spiegel supposedly came upon Hitlers diary, things like this must be thoroughly vetted by those who know, experts in the field of documents, paper, stampings, I mean, experts who have spent a life handling documents of this nature, trained and studied at the doctor and post doc level....the list is exhaustive. Congrats if its the real deal.Comment
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It is all truly relative, is it not?
Freedom is bliss, is it not? Be it the DE Standarte . . . or NFL tickets . . . no matter the price, I wager there will always be another [foolish?] buyer, standing in line, waiting for the next thrill - regardless of price - Human, as we all are. I'll sit back and remain neutral on the Mengele discovery - it's not my kind of thrill, anyhow.Originally posted by Robert H View Post
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Ah, Dietrich! Of course, you and I know that no such thing exists. I suppose Mr. Gottlieb is relying on the supporting documentation, which in my field does help validate an item to some degree, but the document itself still must stand on its own two feet. I've seen plenty of bad pieces which are accompanied by legitimate documents (if the accompanied documents are indeed legitimate themselves).Originally posted by Dietrich Maerz View PostDidn't you read? It was a clear case of of a "self-authenticating artefact"!
It may or may not stand up. I don't pass judgement on items not consigned to our auction, but I do admittedly have my own firm opinion having now had the opportunity to view stills of the passport. As was the case with Skorzeny (whose papers we also handled), there's a distinct possibility that the passport, if not the entire grouping, are contemporaneous creations. If so, that wouldn't shock me - Mengele had no citizenship in Argentina until about 1956, necessitating a bogus passport in order to create his identity. There's a lot more to this, but only a very careful examination will reveal the truth.
I'm simply stating the facts as I know them as a document specialist.Comment
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Hitler's ca. 1925 letter discussing his emerging anti-Semitism brought $400,000 in a private sale. Mengele's journals brought close to $500,000. Good Lincoln letters bring $5 million, plus.Originally posted by chen View Post
Paper cuts medals.Comment
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Good question. Like a Klan member waving a Confederate battle flag at a Civil War show.Originally posted by Sal Williams View Post
Throw the troll out.Comment
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For the record, and not mentioned in the newspaper, but certainly mentioned by me, the passport may be an example of falsified identity papers. We do know that Mengele relied upon such documents throughout his life. And of course ... of course ... an artifact of this importance requires forensic analysis, which is why I have been in contact with other experts in other disciplines ... paper, photograph, stamps, the italian archive department of the embassy. I can report that there is no sign of altered entries (as in erasures or washed ink), and the photograph is original. Rest assured before this document leaves my possession all the Ts will literally be crossed, and all the lower case Js dotted! Stay tuned for updates as I have them.Comment
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Grats on finding this special piece of history. I hope the story is all true.
Craig is so careful in his handling of the documents, then that reported just man handles it all!Comment
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Although it might derail the thread, as I 'm not going to write my opinion on the subject, which I watch with interest, I feel I have to write this.
As always, when the name of a Third Reich "personality" is mentioned, the same, usual apologists, defenders of "The Lost Honour of the NSDAP" get out of their creepholes, making very clear revisionist statements, camouflaged under the veil of "objectivity" and "neutrality".
Once cornered, they creep back to their holes, either in silence or with phrases like "Oh, ok, I 'm wrong, you 're right". Since the forum rules are clear, these "ideologists" don't stand for their "ideals", but prefer staying here to have people tell them if their badges are fake or not.
Or they truly have an agenda, staying here and making their presence clear, attracting others of their kind. And since many of the threads get derailed and therefore deleted, the track gets lost.
Excuse me for the tone, but I have really got sick of them. Please don't go "PC", "Dresden" and "Uncle Joe" on me, because Nazi scum is Nazi scum and shouldn't (can't) be tolerated.
Like another forum member said, "when you see a toad, step on it".
Best regards,
GiorgosLast edited by stray_dog; 01-28-2014, 07:00 AM.Comment
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The
Giorgos,
Well summed up.
Fortunately there are only a few of the "Ziggy Hile / Closet Nazi / Selective historians (??
)" here, who's own nose is too out of focus for them to see.
Normally defended with "Irrelevant and meaningless" when their gasbag has deflated.
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Originally posted by stray_dog View PostLast edited by Gary Jucha; 01-28-2014, 07:36 AM.Comment
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A very interesting observation out of first hand!Originally posted by alexanderautogr View Post
So in comparison to these actual market prices a very rare SS cultural item like the Allach figure of the falcon sold by HH for over 50K (including fees) are still underestimated and comparatively cheap.Comment
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So it was not a "self-authenticating artefact" after all. Glad to hear that, would put a lot of experts out of business ....Originally posted by Craig Gottlieb View Post
So, just to avoid confusion (for me), this passport could be:
1. a real passport issues by Italy for Mengele and from Mengele
2. a forged passport, but forged for Mengele and used by Mengele
3. a complete fake, never used by Mengele
Case 1 would be extremely interesting, case 2 would be interesting, and case 3 would be a dud. Right?
DietrichComment
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Originally posted by Obersalzberg View Post
Im still with Sal on this. Hope this has been addressed.Comment
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