Dr. Mengele Passport Found

[Dietrich Maerz]

One question to Greg if he gets a chance to read this: how can you tell if it is original or not?

Didn't you read? It was a clear case of of a "self-authenticating artefact"!

[Scott A. Hess]

IF its real, very interesting, I certainly would have no way of knowing, probably neither would a good 97 percent of people on the planet. Something like this does not self authenticate, just the thought reminds me of when Stern or Spiegel supposedly came upon Hitlers diary, things like this must be thoroughly vetted by those who know, experts in the field of documents, paper, stampings, I mean, experts who have spent a life handling documents of this nature, trained and studied at the doctor and post doc level....the list is exhaustive. Congrats if its the real deal.

[N.C. Wyeth]

It is all truly relative, is it not?

Money and value, who cares. Some have it some don´t. 250k is for certain collectors or people a tip, nothing more.
DE Salzkammergut went also for around 300k. Some buy a Tiger tank, some a Porsche 918 with a starting of 845k.
A seller is free what to do with as he ownes it.

Freedom is bliss, is it not? Be it the DE Standarte . . . or NFL tickets . . . no matter the price, I wager there will always be another [foolish?] buyer, standing in line, waiting for the next thrill - regardless of price - Human, as we all are. I'll sit back and remain neutral on the Mengele discovery - it's not my kind of thrill, anyhow.

[alexanderautogr]

Didn't you read? It was a clear case of of a "self-authenticating artefact"!

Ah, Dietrich! Of course, you and I know that no such thing exists. I suppose Mr. Gottlieb is relying on the supporting documentation, which in my field does help validate an item to some degree, but the document itself still must stand on its own two feet. I've seen plenty of bad pieces which are accompanied by legitimate documents (if the accompanied documents are indeed legitimate themselves).

It may or may not stand up. I don't pass judgement on items not consigned to our auction, but I do admittedly have my own firm opinion having now had the opportunity to view stills of the passport. As was the case with Skorzeny (whose papers we also handled), there's a distinct possibility that the passport, if not the entire grouping, are contemporaneous creations. If so, that wouldn't shock me - Mengele had no citizenship in Argentina until about 1956, necessitating a bogus passport in order to create his identity. There's a lot more to this, but only a very careful examination will reveal the truth.

I'm simply stating the facts as I know them as a document specialist.

[alexanderautogr]

$250,000 , we have reached to the level of any of these 2 items( any one cased diamond).
Interesting passport anyway.

Hitler's ca. 1925 letter discussing his emerging anti-Semitism brought $400,000 in a private sale. Mengele's journals brought close to $500,000. Good Lincoln letters bring $5 million, plus.

Paper cuts medals.

[Sal Williams]

Very true......

The boys from brazil etc...... did nothing but entertain... lew grade production. Jewish of course.

How is this sort of thing being tolerated here?

[Sal Williams]

Dr. Mengele did not arrive at Auschwitz until May 23, 1943 after being wounded in Russia and being given the choice of going back to the Eastern Front or serving in a concentration camp system,Nevertheless, the critical reader, particularly one with some knowledge of Auschwitz, will have more a few doubts as to the accuracy of the Mengele Myth ..

yes I am sure he was a real nice fella

[alexanderautogr]

How is this sort of thing being tolerated here?

Good question. Like a Klan member waving a Confederate battle flag at a Civil War show.

Throw the troll out.

[Craig Gottlieb]

For the record, and not mentioned in the newspaper, but certainly mentioned by me, the passport may be an example of falsified identity papers. We do know that Mengele relied upon such documents throughout his life. And of course ... of course ... an artifact of this importance requires forensic analysis, which is why I have been in contact with other experts in other disciplines ... paper, photograph, stamps, the italian archive department of the embassy. I can report that there is no sign of altered entries (as in erasures or washed ink), and the photograph is original. Rest assured before this document leaves my possession all the Ts will literally be crossed, and all the lower case Js dotted! Stay tuned for updates as I have them.

[Vix Steel]

Grats on finding this special piece of history. I hope the story is all true.

Craig is so careful in his handling of the documents, then that reported just man handles it all!

[stray_dog]

Although it might derail the thread, as I 'm not going to write my opinion on the subject, which I watch with interest, I feel I have to write this.

As always, when the name of a Third Reich "personality" is mentioned, the same, usual apologists, defenders of "The Lost Honour of the NSDAP" get out of their creepholes, making very clear revisionist statements, camouflaged under the veil of "objectivity" and "neutrality".

Once cornered, they creep back to their holes, either in silence or with phrases like "Oh, ok, I 'm wrong, you 're right". Since the forum rules are clear, these "ideologists" don't stand for their "ideals", but prefer staying here to have people tell them if their badges are fake or not.

Or they truly have an agenda, staying here and making their presence clear, attracting others of their kind. And since many of the threads get derailed and therefore deleted, the track gets lost.

Excuse me for the tone, but I have really got sick of them. Please don't go "PC", "Dresden" and "Uncle Joe" on me, because Nazi scum is Nazi scum and shouldn't (can't) be tolerated.

Like another forum member said, "when you see a toad, step on it".

Best regards,
Giorgos

[Gary Jucha]

The

Giorgos,
Well summed up.
Fortunately there are only a few of the "Ziggy Hile / Closet Nazi / Selective historians (?? )" here, who's own nose is too out of focus for them to see.
Normally defended with "Irrelevant and meaningless" when their gasbag has deflated.

__________________________________________________ __

Although it might derail the thread, as I 'm not going to write my opinion on the subject, which I watch with interest, I feel I have to write this.

As always, when the name of a Third Reich "personality" is mentioned, the same, usual apologists, defenders of "The Lost Honour of the NSDAP" get out of their creepholes, making very clear revisionist statements, camouflaged under the veil of "objectivity" and "neutrality".

Once cornered, they creep back to their holes, either in silence or with phrases like "Oh, ok, I 'm wrong, you 're right". Since the forum rules are clear, these "ideologists" don't stand for their "ideals", but prefer staying here to have people tell them if their badges are fake or not.

Or they truly have an agenda, staying here and making their presence clear, attracting others of their kind. And since many of the threads get derailed and therefore deleted, the track gets lost.

Excuse me for the tone, but I have really got sick of them. Please don't go "PC", "Dresden" and "Uncle Joe" on me, because Nazi scum is Nazi scum and shouldn't (can't) be tolerated.

Like another forum member said, "when you see a toad, step on it".

Best regards,
Giorgos

[Thorsten B.]

Hitler's ca. 1925 letter discussing his emerging anti-Semitism brought $400,000 in a private sale. Mengele's journals brought close to $500,000. Good Lincoln letters bring $5 million, plus.

Paper cuts medals.

A very interesting observation out of first hand!

So in comparison to these actual market prices a very rare SS cultural item like the Allach figure of the falcon sold by HH for over 50K (including fees) are still underestimated and comparatively cheap.

[Dietrich Maerz]

For the record, and not mentioned in the newspaper, but certainly mentioned by me, the passport may be an example of falsified identity papers. We do know that Mengele relied upon such documents throughout his life. And of course ... of course ... an artifact of this importance requires forensic analysis, which is why I have been in contact with other experts in other disciplines ... paper, photograph, stamps, the italian archive department of the embassy. I can report that there is no sign of altered entries (as in erasures or washed ink), and the photograph is original. Rest assured before this document leaves my possession all the Ts will literally be crossed, and all the lower case Js dotted! Stay tuned for updates as I have them.

So it was not a "self-authenticating artefact" after all. Glad to hear that, would put a lot of experts out of business ....

So, just to avoid confusion (for me), this passport could be:

1. a real passport issues by Italy for Mengele and from Mengele
2. a forged passport, but forged for Mengele and used by Mengele
3. a complete fake, never used by Mengele

Case 1 would be extremely interesting, case 2 would be interesting, and case 3 would be a dud. Right?

Dietrich

[stdrbs14]

Very true......

The boys from brazil etc...... did nothing but entertain... lew grade production. Jewish of course.

Im still with Sal on this. Hope this has been addressed.