Originally posted by PANZER332
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In much the same way as George Washington and company were traitors. -
ChrisOriginally posted by Chris Boonzaier View Post
Just re-read this thread while looking for some Claus v. Stauffenberg info here and remembered this thread and the 'argument' that raged briefly.
Are you able to post some images of Hans Oster's shoulder boards on this thread at all? (or even start a thread on it's own seeing as to the historical value alone) I would also be interested in hearing of the provenance as to how they came from this man's estate.
IMO there is nowhere near enough constructive dicussion on v. Stauffenberg and 20-July-1944 and the many who opposed the regime at the time.
Regards Richard.Always looking for Luftwaffe Kampfflieger related document groups. In particular anything to Kampfgeschwader 2.Comment
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Good luck with the discussion. I have taken part in such attempts on other sites. All you get is one camp who see him as a traitor, a failure and a coward for not staying with his bomb versus the others who see him as honourable, brave and unlucky. And around and around it goes with neither side willing to bend until someone always raises his unfortunate letter to Nina where he insults Poles....and then he is a Jew hater and a war criminal. Not sure I have the stomach for a replay but you never know, some good could possibly come of it.
You can see where I stand from my avatar.
Cheers
ColinComment
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Colin
I would indeed like to see some constructive, balanced and un-prejudiced discussion takes place on the matter, and I might indeed start a thread in that vein as there are indeed some points I think worthy of debate: such as the level of Fromm's knowledge on the plot for one however, that would be hi-jacking this thread, and WAF is notorious for that already!
Although this is not my main area of interest, I fiind the whole episode a fascinating part in the history of the Third Reich and think it should be discussed as such accordingly. I am not holding my breath on that one one by the way!
Regards Richard.Always looking for Luftwaffe Kampfflieger related document groups. In particular anything to Kampfgeschwader 2.Comment
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In my opinion these 'gentlemen' from High Command were not up to the job.
If the task had been carried out by Nco's and the like it would have succeded....
However these very same ranks were in the main loyal to their Leader and Country.
The aristocracy dont know how to kill in cold blood.Comment
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I agree but there is likely no point. Been there done that. I have a collection of bomb plot signatures and one of my most valued it that of Ewald Heinrich Von Kliest-schmenzin. I just looked him up in the Munich phone book, fired off a letter with 2 IRCs and got back a very nice note with an embossed card carrying his signature. The only one in my collection that was signed specifically FOR me. After the abortive suicide bombing plan, he was heavily involved during Valkyrie. It's amazing he survived after being in the named SD arrest list if those taken under arms at the Bendlerstrasse (source Jacobsen volume 1). He has an amazing and productive life post war too. His interviews in the film "The Restless Conscience" were particularly memorable.
Colin
Originally posted by stgeorge64 View PostComment
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ColinOriginally posted by crfraser View Post
If we do not discuss aspects of history with an objective and constructive viewpoint, then information will not be subsequently shared and debated accordingly.
If we do have a thread dealing with v. Stauffenberg and the 20-July-1944 bomb plot, then it is up to those that post to do so in a manner befitting of an episode in history which had a massive impact upon the Third Reich.
Opinions on this forum are totally polarised, from wishing recently deceased KZ guards a safe journey to heaven, to calling v. Stauffenberg and his fellow conspirators traitors.......you simply cannot win and as sure as eggs are eggs someone will throw the first handful of mud.
On that basis however, should we really stop discussing a historical topic that we find interesting? No, we should not.
Regards Richard.Always looking for Luftwaffe Kampfflieger related document groups. In particular anything to Kampfgeschwader 2.Comment
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