Post your Spanish volunteer militaria.

[Spanish Freiwillige]

Ok if there is any persoanl issues to be discussed take it up in PM otherwise stick to the idea of the thread

[Asper]

"Sorry Luis but this number is clearly wrong.

Not so many people born in Portugal fought in Russia in the Blue Div. In many years researching in the archives on this matter, just over 20 - 25 of them was found. And they had to have spanish nationality to be admitted in the Blue Division. Almost all of them arrived to the Division through the Spanish Legion, where several companys of strangers served. I´ve read a lot about this supposed hundreds of portuguese fighting in Russia in portuguese media, but no proof of this number has been given yet.

So, if you have something about it, please share it with us, but I have my doubt cause I think this evidences simply do not exist for more than these 20 spanish nationalizated portuguesse."



Greetings,

This thread is indeed a wonderful gem in bringing together such scarce testimonials of Iberian WWII history. Thank-you to all that have shared with us.

I will not derail this thread with historical discussion, but I wanted to quickly address the statement above as it indirectly impacts some of the artifacts at hand. Portuguese serving in German uniform were and still are taboo in Portuguese history due to Portugal's long history of Anglo ties and post-war views associated with the Nazi Regime. Although Salazar did not permit record of Portuguese support for Germany, and subsequent governments hushed anything related to it, it is common knowledge in Portugal that Salazar supported the German war effort with raw materials (i.e. Tungsten), secret submarine bases (i.e. Madeira Island) and infantry volunteers in the European crusade against Bolshevism.

Over 1,000 Portuguese volunteers officially served in the Wehrmacht under "Legiao Verde" (Green Legion). Due to political pressures applied by the Allied powers, these were then absorbed into the Blue Division in a smaller number (~300), the rest joined Waffen-SS divisions. An interesting point was that after joining the DA, Portuguese wore the gold and red insignia rather than the green and red to completely remove Portuguese colors association with the German regime. After the 250th Division was disbanded for similar reasons, these joined the same SS divisions as their Iberian brothers - i.e. Charlemagne & Wallonie.

Over the past few years the internet has given us a wonderful insight into this topic by allowing this information to be shared and puzzled together by many interested in the topic and holding different pieces . There are several groups and organizations that have been trying to assemble a list of all Blue Division volunteers; Here is an example of a quick link to a roster of 76 Portuguese volunteers that served in the DA. Hopefully the rest will surface over the next few years:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Pgb9_GVYb9...+3+-+Serga.jpg

Cheers,

Asper

[Guripa250]

Portugues soldiers in the Blue Division.

"Sorry Luis but this number is clearly wrong.

Not so many people born in Portugal fought in Russia in the Blue Div. In many years researching in the archives on this matter, just over 20 - 25 of them was

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Pgb9_GVYb9...+3+-+Serga.jpg

Cheers,

Asper

Hi Asper,

I am agree with you and I confirm that it is very interesting that the Portugues soldiers in the Spanish Blue Division ( VIRIATOS ). It is true that they fighted in Rusia with the 250 Division ( Division Azul )

If you want there are some information in this link :

http://memoriablau.foros.ws/

Thank you very much for the list that you put in this foro for the members of Portugues people in the Division.

Many thanks,

[Spanish Freiwillige]

"Sorry Luis but this number is clearly wrong.

Not so many people born in Portugal fought in Russia in the Blue Div. In many years researching in the archives on this matter, just over 20 - 25 of them was found. And they had to have spanish nationality to be admitted in the Blue Division. Almost all of them arrived to the Division through the Spanish Legion, where several companys of strangers served. I´ve read a lot about this supposed hundreds of portuguese fighting in Russia in portuguese media, but no proof of this number has been given yet.

So, if you have something about it, please share it with us, but I have my doubt cause I think this evidences simply do not exist for more than these 20 spanish nationalizated portuguesse."

This thread is indeed a wonderful gem in bringing together such scarce testimonials of Iberian WWII history. Thank-you to all that have shared with us.

I will not derail this thread with historical discussion, but I wanted to quickly address the statement above as it indirectly impacts some of the artifacts at hand. Portuguese serving in German uniform were and still are taboo in Portuguese history due to Portugal's long history of Anglo ties and post-war views associated with the Nazi Regime. Although Salazar did not permit record of Portuguese support for Germany, and subsequent governments hushed anything related to it, it is common knowledge in Portugal that Salazar supported the German war effort with raw materials (i.e. Tungsten), secret submarine bases (i.e. Madeira Island) and infantry volunteers in the European crusade against Bolshevism.

Over 1,000 Portuguese volunteers officially served in the Wehrmacht under "Legiao Verde" (Green Legion). Due to political pressures applied by the Allied powers, these were then absorbed into the Blue Division in a smaller number (~300), the rest joined Waffen-SS divisions. An interesting point was that after joining the DA, Portuguese wore the gold and red insignia rather than the green and red to completely remove Portuguese colors association with the German regime. After the 250th Division was disbanded for similar reasons, these joined the same SS divisions as their Iberian brothers - i.e. Charlemagne & Wallonie.

Over the past few years the internet has given us a wonderful insight into this topic by allowing this information to be shared and puzzled together by many interested in the topic and holding different pieces . There are several groups and organizations that have been trying to assemble a list of all Blue Division volunteers; Here is an example of a quick link to a roster of 76 Portuguese volunteers that served in the DA. Hopefully the rest will surface over the next few years:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Pgb9_GVYb9...+3+-+Serga.jpg

Cheers,

Asper

Great coment and thanks for clarifingGreetings,

Any photos of one of theses men?

[esquiroz]

Ramon' s steel helmet

Hello

only to make a comment on the opinion of the Ramon's helmet. It is not only a well known piece in the collectrs world of pieces of the Blue Division, but it is a clear original in both decals, even if the spanish cou be pu twice, it is for sure done during the WWII.
If you cpould have the piece in your hands you could see that it seems that the decal is and has ever been part f this helmet-

About the other 5 ones, in my opinion only three coould be discussed, the two relics and the forth one. The other are not original peido ones, ever in my opinion. I have been several times in Russia and have worked with the Voksbund to find spanish cemeteries and have seen over the years some helmets of the Blue Division, and a lot of the Wehrmacht and could tell you abut the condition of them and of most of the decals.

The origin of the helmets is, as they say, Kolpino. It wuld be interestimg t know who culd have found this helmets and exactly wjere, as the Vplksbund hasn't found yet where the spaniards killed in action in Krasnij BOr could have been grabed by the russians.

If they are original they can be mostly taken from the dead bodies of the volunteers.

regards
Carlos

[Spanish Freiwillige]

Hello

only to make a comment on the opinion of the Ramon's helmet. It is not only a well known piece in the collectrs world of pieces of the Blue Division, but it is a clear original in both decals, even if the spanish cou be pu twice, it is for sure done during the WWII.
If you cpould have the piece in your hands you could see that it seems that the decal is and has ever been part f this helmet-

About the other 5 ones, in my opinion only three coould be discussed, the two relics and the forth one. The other are not original peido ones, ever in my opinion. I have been several times in Russia and have worked with the Voksbund to find spanish cemeteries and have seen over the years some helmets of the Blue Division, and a lot of the Wehrmacht and could tell you abut the condition of them and of most of the decals.

The origin of the helmets is, as they say, Kolpino. It wuld be interestimg t know who culd have found this helmets and exactly wjere, as the Vplksbund hasn't found yet where the spaniards killed in action in Krasnij BOr could have been grabed by the russians.

If they are original they can be mostly taken from the dead bodies of the volunteers.

regards
Carlos

Carlos thanks a lotr for your coments, good analysis!!

[collado250]

Pido perdón al Moderador, pero voy a responder en español, ya que mi dominio del inglés es muy básico y seguramente disbirtuaría el enfoque de mi respuesta. Si hay alguien que me pueda traducir correctamente, le ruego que lo haga para que los otros miembros puedan entederme mejor.
Primero de todo decir que la foto aparecida hace unas semanas de una colección de cascos de la división, es de parte de mi colección, y que fué enviada por mi a un buen amigo. Nunca he querido exponer mis piezas en este foro, y no lo voy ha hacer ahora. No he entrado en la discusión sobre la posible originalidad de un casco de otro compañero del foro, Ramon Sierra, porque le considero un amigo y no me ha pedido mi opinión.
No conozco personalmente a Spanish Freiwillige, pero viendo sus grandes conocimientos de la militaria alemana y de la división azul, preguntando si es posible que una guerrera mlo 36 lleve un águila mlo 40, lo dice todo. Solo le recomendaría se aplicase una célebre frase pronunciada por el Rey de España al presidente de Venezuela....."¿porqué no te callas?". No hay una sola vez que analice un casco que no le rueguen que por favor, se calle:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=fj+cover+wire
Respecto a esquiroz, tampoco le conozco. No conozco su extensa colección de cascos de la División azul que le han permitido juzgar con una foto sacada de lejos la originalidad de mi colección. La verdad es que tampoco me importa su opinión, ya que no se la he pedido. Si yo quisiera pedir la opinión de un experto, no creo que fuera el elegido.
Pero, lo que sî me ha molestado de esquiroz es que me trate de mentiroso y de profanador de tumbas. El que usted no haya encontrado cascos parecidos cuando ha ido allí (¿Tal vez usted si se dedicó a profanar tumbas?), solo significa que , o no ha sabido buscar bien, o viendo la cantidad que usted les ofrecía prefirieron guardárselos. Desgraciadamente conozco el mayor pecado de los españoles: la envidia. Y como lo conozco, guardo hasta las bolsas del correo ruso en los que me han llegado, con sus etiquetas de Kolpino. Además poseo vídeos (estan en youtube) de parte de las piezas cuando son encontradas, así como fotos aéreas y de la excavación, en las que se pueden ver que dichos cascos etc, aparecieron en hoyos de tirador, sin muertos.
Por supuesto que si se encontraran un esqueleto, no lo abandonarían, llevándolo al cementerio del pueblo más cercano.
¿Alguien conoce algún enterramiento donde se entierre a los soldados con el casco puesto?
Respecto a los cascos mlo 42 (SI, hay dos en estado casi mint) fueron comprados por mi a un sobrino de un antiguo ayudante enfermero ruso, que los recogió en el hospital de Riga donde trabajó con nuestros divisionarios. Por supuesto, también guardo las cartas cruzadas entre ambos así como una especie de "carta certificado" en ruso, en la que me cuenta la historia de esos cascos. Principalmente, para las personas que, motivadas por la envidia, no tiene otra cosa mejor que hacer que dedicarse a destruir las colecciones de otros diciendo aquello de "miente, que algo queda".
No voy a exponer mis cascos, el que quiera verlos que venga a mi casa, será bienvenido.
Gracias a personas como estas dos, es por lo que muchos coleccionistas serios, optan como yo a guardar sus piezas para su círculo más íntimo, o no amigo Ramón Sierra? Opino como tu.
Si consideran necesario que ponga las fotos para demostrar las mentiras pronunciadas por esquiroz y aplaudidas por Spanish Freiwillige, no tengo ningún inconveniente. Por favor, seamos serios.
Pido perdón una vez más al moderador por expresarme en español.

[ACER]

.

[ACER]

Hello

only to make a comment on the opinion of the Ramon's helmet. It is not only a well known piece in the collectrs world of pieces of the Blue Division, but it is a clear original in both decals, even if the spanish cou be pu twice, it is for sure done during the WWII.
If you cpould have the piece in your hands you could see that it seems that the decal is and has ever been part f this helmet-

About the other 5 ones, in my opinion only three coould be discussed, the two relics and the forth one. The other are not original peido ones, ever in my opinion. I have been several times in Russia and have worked with the Voksbund to find spanish cemeteries and have seen over the years some helmets of the Blue Division, and a lot of the Wehrmacht and could tell you abut the condition of them and of most of the decals.

The origin of the helmets is, as they say, Kolpino. It wuld be interestimg t know who culd have found this helmets and exactly wjere, as the Vplksbund hasn't found yet where the spaniards killed in action in Krasnij BOr could have been grabed by the russians.

If they are original they can be mostly taken from the dead bodies of the volunteers.

regards
Carlos

Hola,

Voy a hablar yo también en castellano, no porque , en mi caso, no pueda hablar en inglés sino porque va a ser mucho más directo lo que te voy a decir.

No entiendo a qué vienes ahora diciendo algo sobre lo que ya se ha hablado y se ha decidido de mutuo acuerdo dejar zanjado ese asunto. Desconozco si has estado en Rusia o no, y si has excavado o no el pais entero, sinceramente no me importa ni me interesa. Pero estoy cansado de los "listos" que saben y entienden viendo fotos mal hechas y saben juzgar a algo que esta enfocado desde más de un metro.

Yo he estado en su casa, he visto los cascos, TOCADO, OLIDO Y MANIPULADO, Y CREEME QUE NO TIENEN NADA MALO. Si han aparecido donde él dice, o se los han dado, regalado o comprado es lo de menos, pero los cascos son buenos. Si no, te coges un avión y te presentas en su casa, que es lo que hice yo ANTES DE JUZGAR NADA SIN SABER.

Yo tambien he viajado a Normandía, y he visitado las playas y los sitios del desembarco, por lo que tu dices, como no he visto nada, todo lo que se presente ahora es malo, simplemente porque no lo visto en el sitio.

Un poco más de sensatez a la hora de juzgar los cascos ajenos

Saludos.

P.D. espero que se acabe aquí esta discusión, pero no voy a permitir que se hable sin conocimiento

[Spanish Freiwillige]

To all who follow this thread, please forgive the intervention of these people that only seek to discuss the obvious, about the helmets, well, it is not the end of the world, just a bit more knowledge of blue division helmets would have prevented a mistake, sorry but mi opinion is shared by other experts and I will stand by it. Especially since we know from where the helmets came from and we are positive they are tampered with. Id these individuals seek further discussion I suggest they take it up to the helmet forum in a polite way and in accordance with forum rules

[collado250]

??

[Spanish Freiwillige]

??

[collado250]

Lets not ruin a great informative thread.

No personal attacks!!!

Allan

[ACER]

To all who follow this thread, please forgive the intervention of these people that only seek to discuss the obvious, about the helmets

Jaime, te conozco y me conoces. No me toques la fibra que no quiero guerra. Vamos a dejarlo como esta

Saludos

[Spanish Freiwillige]

To tell yu the truth I really dont mind your coments, they are not important at all, but a word of advice, do not mess wit the othe rmebers by calling them five year olds, they are very knowladge collectors, sorry that you got those helmets, but no matter the wold goes on, Please do not desrespect other members in the forum