Salty Cased Zeppelin

[J. McCabe Bell]

Thought I'd subject this to peer review after seeeing my hundredth cased Zeppelin on eBay...

[J. McCabe Bell]

[J. McCabe Bell]

Incused CEJ in a box

[Ferg 1]

Juncker Luftschiffer badge

Hi John,thanks for posting this zep badge, but I have to say that it worries me a little. I have seen quite a few badges exactly the same as this which were spun-cast fakes , with various maker marks. Do you think that the box and badge belong together? Obviously an old box but does not look like a Juncker .I have seen a zep badge that carried the C E Juncker Berlin SW which was nearly the same as yours but not quite , that one is in archives dept. in the Imperial War museum/London. Just my opinions,Ferg1.

[J. McCabe Bell]

Hi, Ferg

Appears die struck to me, especially when you examine the base brass, the plating is flaking or bubbling off. What's the difference in appearance between die cast and sand or spun cast? I can say inner areas are hand chased and square edged. Don't know if you can see it from the pictures, but the case is form fitted and has housed that badge for some time. It fits the pin like a glove. Why doesn't it look like a Juncker case to you? and what is your point about the IWM badge? THe CEJ is I believe their early 1930s hallmark as is the pin type.

If any Luftwaffe guys familiar with CEJ's 30s pins and die struck vs die cast vs sand/spun cast can comment? The style of pin compared with early Luftwaffes might reveal something. I know it doesn't compare to a 1920s CE Juncker...

Rgds

[MrSmith]

Looks spot on to me, I picked one a badge recently which is a 100% match, came with photos and documents from the original owner passed down through the family, I will post some pictures soon.

[J. McCabe Bell]

WOW!! Then that would be the first Zep badge I've ever heard coming with provenance. Please do post!

[Tim Tezer]

John,

My gut says "stay away". These are pretty tricky items, and there is a lot of disagreement, but IMHO there are a few things wrong here:

First, I don't like the maker's mark. I don't know of "CEJ" being used on anything earlier than the Spanish Crosses, which would imply that this badge is a private purchase from the 1930s. That's certainly possible, but ALL of the Spanish Crosses that I could find in photos have a mark that is different from this one. They have the letters stamped in relief, inside of a box outline that is also stamped, rather than the incused box with raised letters on the one you've got there.

Secondly, I don't like the pin or catch. Juncker pilot badges of WW1 did not use flat section catches like this, and neither did their WW2 badges. Their Spanish Crosses had big thick C-shaped catches of semi-circular section. The pin has what appears to be a typical coke-bottle shape, but it's just not exactly the correct shape. There's something about the wide flare in the center that says "Latvia" to me.

Lastly, the patina is pretty extreme. While it's possible for a perfectly original badge to be neglected and develop a lot of corrosion, it's also a warning sign that someone has artificially aged the item and gone too far.

I could be wrong, but my feeling on this is that I would not put it in my collection.

Tim

[J. McCabe Bell]

Well...I bought this years ago for $350, because the case diverted attention away from the doubts you raise, Tim. If you could inspect it, you would be mighty impressed by it. Identical workmanship to period cases, no artificial aging that I can detect, and it fits the pin like a glove. Good honest outline to top and bottom. So I guess I worked backwards.

Have never seen another Zep fake like this in 20 years, or a half decent fake case you couldn't spot at fifty paces blah blah blah...

People are telling me Hardin & Wolfe are bringing a REAL Navy and Army Zep badge to the Show of Shows in Feb. Price each? $5,000. Both unmarked. Can't wait to see what a $5,000 badge looks like! The saga continues...

Perhaps this is still some legit late Weimar piece?!

[MrSmith]

No this would have been a piece privately purschased.

[Stijn David]

Zeppelin badges

Hello,


In the recent yearbook as published by the BDOS e.v. (see link: http://www.bdos.org ) there is a in depth article about Zeppelin badges.

I do suggest that the interested persons do contact the BDOS and do obtain that yearbook. You will find it interesting


Cordial greetings,

[regular122]

John,

This is the same piece posted some time ago over in the GMIC isn't it? It got good reviews there. Are there any examples of known good ones to show to compare? This badge seems to have lots going in its favor compared to many seen. The only thing I am puzzled with is the wear in the case that means obvious long-time storage and wear on the badge. Seems like you would have heavy on the badge and none on the case or vice versa.

Hope someone can post some comparisons. Steve

[MrSmith]

Why are you concerned with wear in the case? this is afterall a 70+ year old case

compare it to other awards of the same period.

[J. McCabe Bell]

Thanks Stijn, but do you mean the Vereinsmagazin? This issue? I don't see reference anywhere to a "Yearbook".



Before I can order it is there anything in it that bears on this discussion?

Steve and Mr. S, the wear to me is commensurate with any other 80-year case I have. The badge isn't so much worn, as losing its plating I think, due to its being stored in a damp place. The box has warpage, and there is a lot of rust in crevasses on the badge and in the recesses of the box.

I think Tim has a point that the CEJ is not whacked in but probably cast in the badge. Were they die casting in the 30s?

Yup, I showed this over at GMIC a year or two ago.

Rgds

[Darrell]

Yup, I showed this over at GMIC a year or two ago.

Rgds

What was Rick's (stoogieman) take? Did he like it?