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**FrenchVolunteer** · 12-15-2018, 11:18 AM

Hi,

strange that the most important lot was not bought...

See You

Vince

**compressore** · 12-15-2018, 11:50 AM

?

Originally posted by cossack1648 View Post

Big ticket, highly significant items that define history and major historical figures bring big ticket prices. The question is, if considering current political environment, will those items be possible to be publicly sold and auctioned in 10 years. Or auctions will be held in some remote countries?

Jack

Imo he is not a major historical figure. He has not changed anything in the course of history. Maybe to some in the TR collectors work..but that's it. Maybe in 30 to 50 years even no one is interested anymore in a tank commander artificial blown up image and his awards.

Not need to bash me...just my opinion.
And btw nice items and I am sure the buyer will enjoy them.

**Panzer-G-man** · 12-15-2018, 12:23 PM

Kevin Wheatcroft is probably opening the petty cash box as we speak.

**JK53** · 12-15-2018, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by compressore View Post

Imo he is not a major historical figure. He has not changed anything in the course of history. Maybe to some in the TR collectors work..but that's it. Maybe in 30 to 50 years even no one is interested anymore in a tank commander artificial blown up image and his awards.

Not need to bash me...just my opinion.
And btw nice items and I am sure the buyer will enjoy them.

I agree I don't think you will be able to give these awards away, but if you have that sort of money and thats your interest enjoy

**skalphunter** · 12-17-2018, 12:10 PM

I don´t want to hack this thread. Just wondering that items with a provenience belonging to more known soldiers bring so much more cash. Per example from a known SS leader i own a couple of items (all with written statements from his daughter). That then means they are worth double and triple of the regular price? Or another example. The steelhelmet (by the way a Wehrmacht helmet )what was on top of Sepp Dietrichs coffin at his funeral is in my posession ( with written statement of the SS leaders daughter) being a good friend of Sepp Dietrich, Jochen Peiper etc). Her father gave that helmet (what is nametagged to his brother in law)to the ODR guys who used it for the funeral and gave it back to him later. Can i consider that helmet as historical valuable ?
Best regards

skalp

**FrenchVolunteer** · 12-17-2018, 02:11 PM

Hi,

i will say that there is less chance that those are high-end faked or pimped items.
Therefore you may get more money for them from collectors with a lot of money.

But again, collectors needs to make their homework... Many veterans had reproductions or original items given to them after the war, items that were originally not theirs during WW2 or before...
Not counting the fakes that were swapped for the originals in museums or veteran estates by crooks.
And written statements can be faked too, we have to remember the Fritz Witt fake items said to come from the family.

See You

Vince

**Gary B** · 12-17-2018, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by skalphunter View Post

I don´t want to hack this thread. Just wondering that items with a provenience belonging to more known soldiers bring so much more cash. Per example from a known SS leader i own a couple of items (all with written statements from his daughter). That then means they are worth double and triple of the regular price? Or another example. The steelhelmet (by the way a Wehrmacht helmet )what was on top of Sepp Dietrichs coffin at his funeral is in my posession ( with written statement of the SS leaders daughter) being a good friend of Sepp Dietrich, Jochen Peiper etc). Her father gave that helmet (what is nametagged to his brother in law)to the ODR guys who used it for the funeral and gave it back to him later. Can i consider that helmet as historical valuable ?
Best regards

skalp

skalp,

The better the provenance the better the price will be. A letter, in and of itself, might not do it for some buyers. Pictures showing the exact helmet in "use" as well as letters following the "trail' of ownership is better.

Gary B

**Gary B** · 12-17-2018, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by wolfslair44 View Post

Time will tell if it is money well spent (a good investment). For sure it will go up in value, but keep in mind the Buyer is paying the buyer's premium on this lot as well which is significant. When they go to sell, some day, the value will have gone up for sure but if selling on an auction site (to maximize the selling price) they will also have to pay the auction house a significant portion of the fees. Therefore, the value will have to go up quite a bit to recoup both the buyer's premium paid and the future auction house fee.

So 100,000 + 17.5% (not sure what AT's buyer's premium was) = 117,500 paid in 2018.

Now if you go and sell in 5-10 years and fetch 150,000 and you have to pay 30% to the auction house:

150,000 less 45,000 is 105,000 so less than what you paid for it and therefore it is not a strong investment. Obviously, it remains to be seen what someone else will pay in 5 to 10 years but that was assuming a nearly 50% return just to show how much it actually has to go up (which could be high or low).

Note that many auction houses can, and will, reduce their commission fees on both ends (buyer and consignee) to entice the right items coming to their auctions as well as encourage bidding with previous buyers.

Gary B

**skalphunter** · 12-18-2018, 07:38 AM

Thanks for the answers. Yes i have seen reproductions worn by vets myself as their originals where lost or taken during and after the war. i guess everything can be faked somehow even letters from the families. In my case the daugther is still living, so i might have her statement recorded. On the other hand it seems to be quite silly to ask for that. (((-:
skalp

**FrenchVolunteer** · 01-01-2019, 05:27 PM

Hi,

please find below from my archives the "official" promotional ad of the fake Wittmann items proposed from late June 2018 outside of the eMedals website.

"Please contact for details".
Yeah right !

See You

Vince

Attached Files

Wittmann.jpg (209.1 KB, 966 views)

**chen** · 01-01-2019, 10:38 PM

It will be interested to see these two KC too if still existed.

Attached Files

**rob NL** · 03-23-2019, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by markus View Post

That is correct Vince.

You will see on several photos that there's always one empty case and two cases with mint, unused ribbons.

I assume MW used the one he got with the KC immediately in the field for daily wear with his service shirt/wrapper. The OL and OLS boxes did not have their respective ribbons removed. (the OLS award and case were mint and sent by mail to Mrs. Wittmann after MW's death).

You will note on the affidavit for the KC that the case does not have a ribbon in it. Probably the dealer later added it so it looks nicer and gives the impression MW actually wore this around his neck. The estate however in reality never had a worn KC ribbon.

Markus

The ribbon that’s missing in the OL case was given to a collector by the widow when he bought the uniforms from Wittmann.
Wittmann spilled ink over that ribbon. It has stains on it.
There were a leather coat, overcoat, 4 pocket tunic ( that he wore on his wedding) and a black wrapper.

**Max Wünsche** · 03-23-2019, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by rob NL View Post

The ribbon that’s missing in the OL case was given to a collector by the widow when he bought the uniforms from Wittmann.
Wittmann spilled ink over that ribbon. It has stains on it.
There were a leather coat, overcoat, 4 pocket tunic ( that he wore on his wedding) and a black wrapper.

Dare I ask who owns the uniforms now....?

.
.
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**Robert H** · 03-24-2019, 01:07 AM

hahahaha

**Christian J** · 03-24-2019, 01:37 AM

Insider joke?

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Michael Wittmann grouping on Andreas Thies 65

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