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    #76
    Again careful detailed examination (especially of holes and cut-outs) reveals that they have all been made by the same hand. they are all fakes regardless of their different quality and regardless of who represent them as of being original (including the books)






    PS: It's worth mentioning that these same fake cyphers exist with no drilled holes in them, which makes them less recognisable, but the die that they all have been made with slightly differes from the original. most notable difference is shown in the illustration below so with holes or no holes you can always recognize them



    Do yourself test : is the cypher with the red square in the picture above fake or original?
    Last edited by Disco Partisan; 04-27-2016, 07:59 AM.

    Comment

      #77
      Originally posted by Disco Partisan View Post
      Perhaps you should re-read what I actually said here as I don't defend it but show why they are "crap" BTW I doubt anyone has ever learned more than I about the original LAH cyphers
      I believe you and I also believe that you have accomplished more in that one day than many of us have accomplished (including myself) in years…….
      Well done and thank you for the proof that you have presented here!

      Sincerely,

      Vilja

      Comment

        #78
        Originally posted by Vilja View Post
        I believe you and I also believe that you have accomplished more in that one day than many of us have accomplished (including myself) in years…….
        Well done and thank you for the proof that you have presented here!

        Sincerely,

        Vilja

        I would second that. Excellent style and approach. Great use of comparative images.

        What is even more interesting is how it is exactly the same as what Honor did here; http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=699185

        Exact same way of making comparisons as if it was the same person doing it ???

        However, both threads are of real use and to be commended. Thank you for your work,

        Chris

        Comment

          #79
          Yes thanks for the efforts made. This is a learning thread for every collector and should be pinned somewhere for the future.

          Comment

            #80
            There is nothing to add when people talk about their own that they are the best. Congrats to you and of course to your knowledge!



            Originally posted by Disco Partisan View Post
            Perhaps you should re-read what I actually said here as I don't defend it but show why they are "crap" BTW I doubt anyone has ever learned more than I about the original LAH cyphers

            Comment

              #81
              Great job Disco,very interesting research and presentation

              Comment

                #82
                Where is the best point of purchase for the English language version...?

                Comment

                  #83
                  Great research and illustrations Disco thanks for sharing.

                  Rene Chavez
                  www.foreignvolunteerlegion.com

                  Comment

                    #84
                    Thanks guys always glad to help! I've been collecting all the data available on LAH cyphers for some quite time (images, articles, etc) just never got to analyze this "drilled-hole" type before even though it always puzzled me a bit.

                    Originally posted by Max Wünsche View Post
                    Where is the best point of purchase for the English language version...?
                    Perhaps directly from the author on his website http://www.101airborneww2.com/books.html
                    Last edited by Disco Partisan; 04-28-2016, 10:12 AM.

                    Comment

                      #85
                      Thanks DP ....excellent presentation
                      __________________________________________________ __________________
                      Cheers Steve

                      PS LAH Cyphers 101

                      Comment

                        #86
                        Originally posted by 90th Light View Post
                        Well, if an LAH cypher from Ray Embree that Mark Bando put in a book he was finishing off for the late Mike Beaver ( Andrew Mollo put the same cypher in his book in 1976) is a red herring in minds of some then I am sure that is how they will see it regardless.

                        Show me a "drill-hole cypher' here with 100% provenance from the German veteran" The same argument was presented in a book about glider pilot badges in regard to the "Ball Hinge Glider Badges". The list goes on.

                        Again I repeat, Mark stated clearly and summed it up nicely when he said;
                        "This debate remains unresolved"

                        And until something concrete emerges one way or the other that is where it will stay for now regardless of one collectors opinion or summation of the situation verses another,

                        Chris
                        Really.............? ...No one interest in the LAH would be so unlearned
                        __________________________________________________ _____________

                        Comment

                          #87
                          Originally posted by SJP View Post
                          Really.............? ...No one interest in the LAH would be so unlearned
                          __________________________________________________ _____________
                          Hard to know what your saying here Steve but anyway in the thread linked below for example, Norm F has done an outstanding job in showing clearly the common die casting flaws the have been reproduced and are found on each cast replica KM badge he is identifying;

                          http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=858294

                          Thanks to Norm efforts, one can clearly see the replication warning points to look for.

                          Yet all we have here on this thread is a series of nicely combined images of drill-hole LAH cyphers by Disco Partisan or who ever he is with him saying that all drill-hole LAH cyphers are cast. Cast what ? brass ? aluminum, zinc ? pot metal ? monkey metal ?

                          If they are all reproduction castings then they would be cast off an original. That original would have die flaws. Those dis flaws will now be common to all reproduced drill-hole LAH cyphers.

                          Quite frankly, Disco Partisan says they are all cast but really without handling them, they could be made from anything such as die stamped, hot struck or die casting cupal/ aluminum, zinc, tombak for example and badly trimmed or a bit beaten up. The German made badges using all these methods before May 1945.

                          Could someone please put up some images showing the common die-casting flaws ???

                          That way we can be really sure that they are lost wax type castings.

                          And another challenge, the ones that Disco shows seem to have different wear patterns and manufacturing flaws when compared to the examples in Mark Bando's book and Andrew Mollo's book. So are they all lost wax post war reproductions or German WW2 die cast products from one or more pre-May 1945 makers which have been worn/ stored thus showing wear/ corrosion in different ways/ degrees over time ?

                          I am not saying Disco Parisan is wrong. What I am saying is that if the KM badge guys can do it so easily with so few words then surely a "learned collector of LAH" will also be able to do this easily or at least arrange to have it done.

                          Until I see the common die-cast flaws from lost wax type replication on the pictured so called reproduction LAH cyphers, shown in the various posts from post number 68 to post number 76 then this debate is not solved. However, I am open minded on the issue and noting with interest what Disco has floated. May be he can now show the flaws like Norm has ?

                          Chris
                          Last edited by 90th Light; 04-29-2016, 07:40 AM.

                          Comment

                            #88
                            Chris die-cast flaws are all over them just look at the pictures and see them like pitted surface, dots and blobs, uneven width of the edge around

                            Comment

                              #89
                              Originally posted by Disco Partisan View Post
                              Chris die-cast flaws are all over them just look at the pictures and see them
                              Then it should be no problem for a collector with your outstanding computer skills to show me and others the common die cast flaws of the original from which they have been copied.

                              Put up images especially of the "surface pits, dots and blobs" like you did on the Honor Roll thread. They were outstanding, simply informative and straight to the point,

                              "uneven width of the edge around" can be from poor trimming, crushing or miss-handling. However a die cast edge can stick out like a dogs balls. Show us some good close ups of the edge like you did on the Honor Roll Clasps.

                              If we see common flaws from copy-casting then we have it nailed, in the bag and solved.

                              If we can not find common flaws and each one is different/ unique then all we are dealing with is a die-cast product (and die-stamped product) which could easily have been made before May 1945 by one or more manufacturers.

                              I await what you can show us all here

                              Chris
                              Last edited by 90th Light; 04-29-2016, 08:16 AM.

                              Comment

                                #90
                                cast-fakes discussed here are fake. there are a lot of other fakes Chris you can see them even on the cover of books (2-nd below) or sold by B.Shea (4-th below). I have dozens more on file. They are all different types and some are of even better quality than the fakes discussed in this thread. Sorry I am not going to prove you why each and everyone of them is fake because it is too obvious to me to talk about. You of course can consider them all original but for me there are only two confirmed original types (one type that Markus showed in the post#65 and the second type I showed in the post#72).

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