Camo coming from Lorenzo - Helmet cover

[Disco Partisan]

As I see it, very deceptive information and false statements have been involved here that mislead many to wrong accusations and have even been crucial for making incorrect and unfair judgements.

Below I will only re-post what has been posted by others here previously. Once you read it till the end, you can clearly see the True story and all the facts straight and not the way they have been misrepresented here before.

Does anyone know for a FACT that Lorenzo manufactured the covers which are held as replicas? Or was he just one of dozens of sellers who had these as well as other items and sold them as real? I have read the threads; there is no evidence he made them.

Does anyone know for a FACT he was witting to the covers and other items being faked, and made a decision to sell them for "profit and greed"?
s/f Robert

you could ask one of the moderators...

Post#124:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru....php?p=7268905

..The recent victory is that we nailed the faker of SS camo, especially covers, and we booted him from the forum. But it took effort. We had suspicions, like in many of the above, but it took reaching out to those who had been offered fake covers in exchange for originals. The dealers protected their source, but it took talking to people and getting them to add facts to the suspicions to come forward. Will it stop him from moving fakes? Nope.....

In my opinion "those who had been offered fake covers in exchange for originals" that Willi Z. mentioned is the member "horsetrainer"/Drew and below is what kind of facts "horsetrainer"/Drew provided here:

Post#18:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=853942&page=2

I do not know Lorenzo personally, but he did contact me to trade 2 Planetree ¾ Helmet Covers for one of my Un-Issued Waffen SS Helmet Covers. He did send photos and I proposed to post them on this forum, but he did not like that and email me “I am happy with my pieces, I dont look for feedback and I dont wish that someone burn on forum my pieces” and that is when I decided not go forth with the trade. He did send many photos of his Waffen SS camouflage collection and seemed to be a nice guy, but when he did not want others on this forum to see the helmet covers, I had my concerns.

From his(horsetrainer) words (above) it all seems like:
1. it was Lorenzo who offered him to do the trade (helmet covers)
2. also Lorenzo offered to trade two of his helmet covers for just one helmet cover (of "horsetrainer")
3. Lorenzo "did not want others on this forum to see the helmet covers" because they are going to be "burned on forum" or like "fakes exposed".
4. It was "horsetrainer" who "decided not go forth with the trade"

Now read the true facts in emails(below) corresponded between "horsetrainer"/Drew and Lorenzo. Note that after I posted it here before "horsetrainer" has not denied a thing in these emails (in his response to it - post#36)
From these emails it is clear that in reality:
1. it was "horsetrainer" who offered to Lorenzo to trade helmet covers
2. Lorenzo offered only One of his helmet covers to trade for the helmet cover of "horsetrainer"
3. Lorenzo have two valid reasons why he does not want his helmet covers to be posted on the WAF
4. It was Lorenzo (not "horsetrainer") who "decided not go forth with the trade"

Post#35
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=853942&page=3

Below is an email that I just received from Lorenzo and he asked me to post it here entirely
=========================================

My Friend, here some emails I exchanged with "Horsetrainer" (Drew) for a trade with his helmet cover last year, how you can see the email exchange give a completely difference view by the message posted by "Horsetrainer"....
---------------------------------------------------------------

From: Drew ("horsetrainer")
To: Lorenzo
Oggetto: Re: R: Waffen SS Oakleaf A Helmet Cover Type II

Dear Lorenzo,

Maybe we can trade? Do you have a plantree helmet cover that you might want to trade? The one below is on Virtual Grenadier website and here are some photos before I sent it to them.
http://www.virtualgrenadier.com/sale_item.php?iid=3314

Regards,
Drew

---------------------------------------------------------------
From: Lorenzo
To: Drew ("horsetrainer")
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2014 2:49:39 PM
Subject: R: Re: R: Waffen SS Oakleaf A Helmet Cover Type II

Hi Drew
The cover you sent me the pictures is exact what I would like to add at the collection, a mixed pattern, that I missing.
I could use for trade one of this two Plan tree helmet covers, if you like, they are light different in construction but the pattern is the same, a later plan tree 3/4.
Here some pictures.
Let me know wich could be of your interest, I dont have preference.
Best
Lorenzo

---------------------------------------------------------------
From: Lorenzo
To: Drew ("horsetrainer")
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 3:55:00 PM
Subject: R: Re: Waffen SS Oakleaf A Helmet Cover Type II

Hi Drew
Of course you can send the photos to your friend.
I dont want my stuffs will be posted on waf, due the total incompetence of the guys are judging this stuffs on the forum...plenty of originals to compare, so I dont see the problem. Right? I will appreciate your understanding thank you.
Best regards
Lorenzo

---------------------------------------------------------------
From: Lorenzo
To: Drew ("horsetrainer")
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 6:37:02 PM
Subject: R: Re: R: Re: Waffen SS Oakleaf A Helmet Cover Type II

Dear Drew
Like I wrote you in the first emails I sent you, this two helmet covers are pieces will be published in my incoming books on SS camouflage and I don't wish they will be posted on forums, for the reasons I already told you and also I wish they will stay unseen until the publication.
Thank you for your offer of trade, but seeing your doubts ..I think is better pass on this trade for now.
Thank you for understanding
Best regards
Lorenzo

Evidently, Drew ("horsetrainer") has misrepresented the facts and lied in order to ban Lorenzo from the forum because he (Drew) is (for some reason) following Owen ("kamoman") which in turn has been lying nonsense about Lorenzo for ages. Nothing what Owen and Drew have said about Lorenzo has been proved to be true. They just blatantly lie. We hate fakes and fakers but crucified the wrong man

[kammo man]

Disco,

You still have not said if the covers are real in your opinion......and why they are real.


Your buddy offered me in person covers that were fake but asked REAL money.

don't call me a iiar sunshine.


owen

[90th Light]

Hi,

i think that this is the time for a new anonymous blog that will tell the whole story in detail...

By the way is there a link with the "pink smocks" saga ?

See You

Vince

I would just love to discuss "Pink" Smocks again and the new findings on that front.

However, the moderators closed that thread/ subject and that is where the matter stands at this point on WAF.

Why side-track this thread with such statements. It seems there is a far bigger fish to fry here. Those who are now feeling the heat would welcome the flippant side-tracking back onto the "Pink/ Birch/ Brick" smocks". Thus any real revelations about these SS covers & caps etc could be diluted with waste of time, back and forth postings. Even better, if we get seriously on to Pinks then the thread might be closed and some connected with the Lorenzo helmet cover saga covers would breath a sigh of relief.

Reading this, it seems Lorenzo is only the "fall-guy". Is he the tip of a far bigger iceberg ? Lets stay focused on what this is all about and who should really have the egg on their face. Lets not jest into unrelated sideshows of no real purpose or value in the solving of this scam,

Chris

[ferdinandmax]

[QUOTE=Disco Partisan;
WHAT ABOUT THE HELMET DOUBLE DECAL FAKE ? AND I WOULD NOT SAY OTHER THINGS

[Palmenmuster]

No pink link.

This is a different way more expensive swindle

Pink was a rookie entry level fun park compared this one

Owen, I know for sure you have a lot of knowledge but this is not what I expect from an "Expert". Personal insults and childish "Its a fake because I say so" dont impress me´. Have you ever inspected the cover "Bax" shove us? If not, personally I would not post what is FAKE - or not. Maybe you would get some more credibility, personally Im not impressed. And by making my self clear, Im not an EXPERT - claiming to know the truth.
Tom

[viva_giulio]

[QUOTE=ferdinandmax;7347227][QUOTE=Disco Partisan;
WHAT ABOUT THE HELMET DOUBLE DECAL FAKE ? AND I WOULD NOT SAY OTHER THINGS[/QUOTE]

SHOW IT... WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU IS INCREDIBLE.

[Disco Partisan]

Disco,

You still have not said if the covers are real in your opinion......and why they are real.


Your buddy offered me in person covers that were fake but asked REAL money.

don't call me a iiar sunshine.


owen

sunshine your buddy "horsetrainer" has just been exposed as a liar and i don't believe you either as you have never ever supported with anything you are fooling around

[leib1]

The way it look's to me is
A.All the top dealers have sold these fake helmut covers
B.They don't want to admit it because they would have to reimburse a lot of money which would see them go bust or drop there prices.Just to cover there losses so are happily laughing at these pointless threads that end up going no where and prove nothing.
In the end the faker as made his money as well as the dealers the only person that loses is the genuine collector.

[kammo man]

disco ,
Your buddy makes fake helmet covers and rips of collectors.

[Palmenmuster]

disco ,
Your buddy makes fake helmet covers and rips of collectors.

Sorry Owen, do you have some facts ? I have sorry to say only heard personal insults and simple statements like FAKE from you, I would expect a more professional approach from a forum member most believe to be an "expert". Disco have some valid points which you just reverse, simple task to make someone look like a fool - Im not impressed by your behavior.
Tom

[kammo man]

Tom .

What valid points has disco made ?

All he has said is Because Lorenzo says so...........NOTHING else.

I have stated MANY MANY times why they are FAKE.............

What persona insults ?

[Disco Partisan]

They are nor fake.
You make fake statements about helmet covers and lie about people. That's all you do.
You are a liar mister but worse of all you are a dangerous liar.
I will prove it tomorrow sunshine

[kammo man]

They are nor fake.
You make fake statements about helmet covers and lie about people. That's all you do.
You are a liar mister but worse of all you are a dangerous liar.
I will prove it tomorrow sunshine

Here we go into posting Disco Anarchy.

Go for it Boyo...........

Please show why they are real and NOT fake.

You are clearly Lorenzos Stooge and nothing you post can make the covers real.

Its really sad,.


owen

[Disco Partisan]

Background: since a long time ago, there is a hearsay in Europe that some super-fake helmet covers have been made and distributed first in Europe, then in America and the rest of the world. No one has ever been able to track down and identify the faker, but some people tried to make wild guesses "who that faker might be" and whispered their gossips and suspicions about each other. Interestingly enough it seems that many/most of them did not even know which of all helmet covers actually those "super-fake" are.

About like 6-9 years ago our friend Owen/"kammo-man" has heard these gossips and got truly obsessed with his "super-faker"-hunt that went for years to come. All these years he has been collecting those gossips around the world and creating new ones. Owen/"kammo-man" quickly identified which helmet covers actually those "super-fake" are, including in the M.Beaver books, dealers sites and private collections. But Owen's main goal was to identify and expose the original source - the infamous faker that made and distributed these super-fake covers. And even though Owen had no facts, no proofs, no evidences, no witnesses, nothing but his own baseless suspicions and gossips, he concluded that "the infamous super-faker must be Lorenzo".

In September, 2012 Owen made his first attempt to expose the "super-faker", which in his opinion was always Lorenzo. Below is the brief summary of the thread that Owen started on this matter. I extracted the key-posts where it is evident that Owen had absolutely nothing in support of his allegations against Lorenzo. All what Owen brought up against Lorenzo was only his suspicions and gossips.
Please note, that Owen simply took off and never responded right after demands were made to support his allegations against Lorenzo.

More importantly, in this Owen's first thread (that he started in September, 2012) Owen has Never mentioned that Lorenzo has offered him covers when they met at the SOS - even after Owen was demanded by moderators to provide any evidence that Lorenzo has been involved in distributing of these covers. That is because Lorenzo has never offered him helmet covers and Owen is now lying about that.

Later on (4 years later) after his first attempt-thread has failed because of lack of evidences, Owen will make up this new lie and will state numerous times in many places that Lorenzo offered him three "fake covers" to choose from at the SOS-2009.

More than that Owen will also bring into this game against Lorenzo his new buddy Drew/"horsetrainer" who will also lie about Lorenzo - like Lorenzo has offered him "two fake covers" in trade for his one original (see my post#106 above where this lie had been already exposed).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

September, 2012
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=620175

People talk. That is the way of the world. Since the covers in question have been around ....lorenzo name comes to the surface every time. Plain and simple

Well I spoke up for the many others collectors who gossip behind the scenes ...........about said covers.

no doubt about Lorenzos mass of SS cammo.
How many Zelts does he own? and how many covers were made? 20...30?

Refering to the topic title "fakers exposed" Is Lorenzo a chain in the fake covers scam Owen?

"[B][FONT="Arial Black"]"Kammo man", are you saying that Lorenz is the source of these fakes?

Yes I am .

So you think it it ok for you to come on here and try to ruin some one with out haveing to prove it ? No sir it is not . This is whats wrong with this hobby today . How are we supposed believe this ? Just on some ones word ? I dont think so.

If this is the case state it and prove it !

That is a pretty serious allegation against Lorenzo. Was this whole thread, with the veiled implications against some Italian faker, supposed to be presenting evidence against Lorenzo? Better have something stronger than whispered phonecalls and consensus through PMs.
Robert

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==========================

Suddenly, 4 years later in January, 2016 Owen brought up an evidence / the fact / the proof that Lorenzo had been "involved in distributing fake helmet covers" - Owen stated for the first time! that Lorenzo directly offered him three helmet covers when they met at the SoS in February, 2009!

Why? Because Owen finely realized that he would need an evidence to prove his allegation against Lorenzo and not just his assumptions, suspicions and gossips . So Owen made up fake facts and simply lie - just like his buddy Drew/"horsetrainer" did against lorenzo

Indeed that is the crucial fact. For example, Only in this very thread Owen has stated that fact at least twice already :

kammo man - Post#97:

Lorenzo offered me his covers directly and I put 2 and 2 together.
If that had not happened to me then I would be on the other foot on this matter.
Weird nasty hobby

kammo man - Post#107:

Disco,
Your buddy offered me in person covers that were fake but asked REAL money.
owen

--------------------------------------------

[kammo man]

Please tell me why the Lorenzo helmet covers are real.

YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED THIS QUESTION ONCE FULLY.

YOU ONLY STATE "BECAUSE LORENZO SAYS SO"

All the posts you are making are smoke screens designed to muddle people.

owen