SS Adjutant Aiguillette

[Robert H]

And no one should fall on the nose with a removed seam.

[Ian Hulley]

Just for once Gary it may NOT be everyone else that's wrong ...

Sooner or later you're going to run out of people who will reply to you.

Ian

[Gary Symonds]

post 48 is showing copy tips, the ones below posted from john are clear different aguilettes and look good! Casting seams are a big big run away, but sometimes you see they remove the casting line but then they are still bad.
As said, original ones are stamped not casted. The bottom of your crowns show the typical casting signs as well.

Robert, here is a better closeup of the removable caps.

Where is the casting seam?

Mr. Saris, you wrote the book. Please post a picture of SS needles that you believe to be original.

[Robert H]

You see clear poor quality on the bottom rings that goes around. As said this a typical well known copy.

[Gary Symonds]

You see clear poor quality on the bottom rings that goes around. As said this a typical well known copy.

Robert, maybe you can clear up your prior inconsistent statements for me.

In 2007, you told John Pepera that his needles show "very good detail." Was this to placate Pepera or not embarass him?

In 2014, fellow member Lothringen posted a picture of his SS aiguillete, and in post 9, there clearly is a casting line. You were the major contributor to that thread.

No mention by you of this damning casting line.

In posts 4 and 5, Lotheringen shows closeup detailed pictures of the needles with the caps removed. No mention by you, as now of the "clear poor quality of the bottom rings."

No mention by you in 2007 that Pepera's aiguillette was a reproduction.

No mention by you in 2014 that Lotheringens aiguilllete was a reproduction.

Now, in 2015, I have to assume that your prior statements in 2007 and 2014, were incorrect?

Lotheringen's aiguillette is 100% identical to the aiguillete that I posted.

Robert, please reconcile your prior inconsistent statements, with your current position.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ht=aiguillette

[John Pic]

The runes on originals are separate and are soldered on.

Gary can you point out to me in my statement where I said they were Fake? Or are you a poor reader too upset with what people think of your item to ? Who gives a F--k what people think, you bought it either you're happy with it or not....or did you hope it would make you millions?

[J. M. C.]

Where is the casting seam?

Hi Gary,
Maybe I can help. I think I see the seams but the bells are rotated so they are not so easy to see.

Look at the bells where I point in this picture.

Do you see them there?

[Gary Symonds]

Gary can you point out to me in my statement where I said they were Fake? Or are you a poor reader too upset with what people think of your item to ? Who gives a F--k what people think, you bought it either you're happy with it or not....or did you hope it would make you millions?

John, the attached link to my thread began on 12/1/06, with a posting of a Heer aiguillette with runic needles by member LarryM.

In post 7 you said, "Never saw anything like them, Army parade Aigullete with SS needle tips poorly done runes welded to them as well. I would beware."

True you are not claiming LarryM's aiguillette is a fake, but it is certainly is not a ratification by you as to authenticity.

John, I am only seeking the truth, based on evidence.

I have asked Mr. Saris the author of the book to post pictures of original runic needles.

In the 2006 thread at post 14, you told us "Ive owned 4 sets of the adjutant type." Hopefully, you can post a picture of one of the four, for our education.

Can you do that for us John?

It may help clear things up.
__________________

[Gary Symonds]

Hi Gary,
Maybe I can help. I think I see the seams but the bells are rotated so they are not so easy to see.

Look at the bells where I point in this picture.

Do you see them there?

You certainly raised a good point. I don't know enough about metal formation to give you an answer, but it is worth going back to the jeweler to find out.

As I mentioned, he told me the bells or cups were die struck, but I will ask him to take a closer look.

Thanks.

[Robert H]

Gary, read the post from John in #48 as I mentioned before. This photo show different pips then the ones that follow in this thread for my opinion.

When your jeweler knows it all why you ask here and up set other people.

[Gary Symonds]

Gary, read the post from John in #48 as I mentioned before. This photo show different pips then the ones that follow in this thread for my opinion.

When your jeweler knows it all why you ask here and up set other people.

Robert I've read post 48. More importantly I have looked at post 48. I see the same runic needles there that are in all the other threads, including mine. They all match. All are identical.

I guess you don't want to believe your lying eyes.

What does this have to do with your prior inconsistent statements?

Then in the past, Pepera's and Lotheringen's runic needles were good. Now they are bad? What give's?

How about a factual response, explaining your 180 degree turn around in the past eight years?

I'm sorry if you find contrary evidence to be upsetting. That's why there is a Forum.

Maybe you could supply some evidence instead of your conclusions of fact, unsupported by evidence.

[wilhelm Saris]

This is what my friend mr. Delich had to say about the tips and I do not judge his opinion nor his expertise:
The bell-shaped caps with the oak leaf design DO HAVE seams,
but the lower portion that pictures the runes DOES NOT have a seam!

Further: I do not post photos at WAF, as I can't. All material used in the mentioned book as detail photos, reproduction-photos or whatever I did own for the subject, I gave away many years ago to a collector to use the material as a studying tool. This is what I most often do, as I do no longer need bulk material for any of the books.

Also my other friend, mr. Andrew Mollo, owned tips that did not show a seam over the tip and surely no seam over the runes.

Another aspect I may say: when I asked mr. Pepera in about 2005 to assist me during my preparations and research for the aiguillette-book, he was not able to do so (or maybe he was not interested) with the 1938 SS adjutants aiguillette.

[Robert H]

do you see casting lines on Lothringens example?
I stated its a copy and its still a copy like yours!

post #48 is a copy as said before.
I dont know photo #48 is the same that is shown on the dress tux photos below.

Listen to Wilhelms post, he wrote it twice for you



... lying eyes, make your own homework in the future with all your
disrespectful comments and then seeking for help

[jabnus]

... lying eyes, make your own homework in the future with all your
disrespectful comments and then seeking for help

Agree! There's close to a dozen recent topics in which Gary Symonds shows fake items from his collection and then picks a fight with everyone who doesn't agree with him. Not a good development for the WAF forum. If something is fake then it is fake. The replies here are overwhelming.

[Gary Symonds]

Agree! There's close to a dozen recent topics in which Gary Symonds shows fake items from his collection and then picks a fight with everyone who doesn't agree with him. Not a good development for the WAF forum. If something is fake then it is fake. The replies here are overwhelming.

Gentlemen, you cannot quote any words of "disrespect" that I have posted. All of my posts on this thread have been to seek evidence and facts.

When a member posts a request for information regarding an item, the usual response is to go to the search function and there will be the answer.

This is what I did, when the "overwhelming" response (3 guys!) said my runic needles were fakes. Per the search function which in all these years only revealed two threads, with relevant data, the needles in the prior threads matched mine.

I am not to believe my own lying eyes and not request an explanation?

Jabnus say that "I pick fights." about my fakes. No I don't pick fights, I merely request proof that what I post is a reproduction. Something that is almost never provided on the WAF. The usual answer is to go to the search function and there it will be. I did just that.

It is obvious, that there has never been a picture of an original adjutant SS aiguillete posted to this date. I invited John Pic, who claimed to have owned four SS aiguillettes to post a picture. Nothing provided. Still waiting. How about a picture Mr. Pic? Is that request for evidence being "disrespectful."?

Mr. Saris tells us Delich has a real one, but he is not an Associate Member and cannot post pictures. Fair enough. I will send Mr. Saris a PM with my business email address, to either forward the email address to Dave for him to either email his pictures to Wilhelm, who can forward them to me, or better yet, have Dave email directly to me pictures of what an original actually looks like.

The only member who actually provided some "help" was J.M.C. who actually provided some evidence to be considered for review. Frankly, it really does not matter if parts of the runic needles are cast or not cast. If we were dealing with a badge, evidence of casting would be highly relevant on the issue of originality. However, this does not translate to a completely different item such as these runic needles. None of us were around to know or understand what and why something was done nearly 80 years ago, by men long dead.

The whole point of the WAF is to debate ideas and facts. When a member questions the wisdom of some "senior" members, that member is treated to scorn for daring to demand evidence.

I purchased the aiguillete from a very knowlegeable and experienced collector. This person has requested that his name not be drawn in, and I have respected his request. However, when I purchased the aiguillette and told him I was going to post it on the WAF, he predicted with unerring certainty that Robert H, the resident expert would claim the aiguillette was a fake. Naturally, he was correct.

I will send a PM to Wilhelm Saris with my business email address, and hopefully I will garner a picture of an original from Dave Delich.