4th SS Polizei Division rank question

[NickG]

Would an NCO (like a Meister, senior NCO Polizei) have worn such Polizei pattern rank insignia in the 4th SS Polizei Division in 1939-1941?
(so pre 1942 when they became an official Waffen SS Division)
Its a little murky to me looking at photos of the early period...
What is clear is that they wore polizei collar tabs during that early period...its the shoulderboards/shoulder straps that I want to know more about!
in an attempt to find an answer I bought a photo book in German from the 1970's called "Die guten Glaubens waren. Bild band Geschichte der SS-Polizei-Division"
It was very expensive ($150) but unfortunately most images were from the later period (post 1942)

According to this reenactor web site they did where Polizei rank in the early period before being fully incorporated in the Waffen SS...

http://www.wwiilha.com/unif39-42.html


.

[jürgen]

Suddenly You are on my side :-)

I also have a Projekt running

Only officers wore the tabs with piping , EM without

I only found pics with Heeres straps

And in the first book , they wrote they all Got their tunics as they arrived

[NickG]

In this (well known) early picture (DD helmets) you see regular combat tunics with SS Sleeve eagle, Polizei tabs, Wehrmacht feldgrau sleeve chevron
(so not SS black pattern!!!) and shoulderboards that are not of the Polizei pattern...Perhaps SS black with Polizei green waffenfarbe?

[NickG]

Suddenly You are on my side :-)

I also have a Projekt running
Only officers wore the tabs with piping , EM without
I only found pics with Heeres straps
And in the first book , they wrote they all Got their tunics as they arrived

Incorrect! Actually Officers wore a totally different pattern (officer size) tabs. These enlisted tabs with silver cord piping were worn my men and NCO's alike,
but on their Polizei dienstrock (SchuPo) uniforms...
So perhaps without the piping in the field on field gray combat uniforms?

[jürgen]

Totally agree!
All right what You say...
Mostly m36 tunic pics found with dark straps .

If a m40 tunic pic came up its with fieldgrey Straps

Iam still hunting for the right strap

Jäger green and pz gren green piped ones dont match right to the tabs

Very hard to say what they wore
..

Special production for these guys ?

Or as schützen regimenter same wiesengrün as pz gren ?

Still a work to do

[NickG]

Its confusing!
Their Artillery component had red waffenfarbe on SS pattern straps?

[jürgen]

[jürgen]

Looks like tabs with backing , also Got pics with floppy collar so also bevo tabs Could be worn??

[jürgen]

No nick , the artillery was the heeres troop reg.300

Later they had an own

[jürgen]

As there was a Pionier battl .attatched it must also be possible they had Black piped

[NickG]

Later Himmlers order allowed them to wear full blown SS insignia as this order reads (see attachment, credit goes to Hundenstaffel)

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...lizei+division

[jürgen]

These tabs were on the estand
Seller didnt react on my PNs

Thanks a lot dear sir

[NickG]

Yes this style (no cord...)

[jürgen]

The last are also possible i would say...but i would say 41/42

To The Documents

My great uncle died april 42 ,his.deathcard stated Out a police rank not an Ss

So the order still needed time to come to the troops

[NickG]

Photo credit PzV for 2nd image...black NCO and field gray enlisted straps shown on same photo! + officer!
So here with field gray shoulder boards????