Honor Ring Prices

[tanker]

Maybe member JR can chime in? He owned the Frank ring and we persistenly tried to get him to post detailed pics of the ring, inside and out to no avail. Ron

[phild]

I don't even understand how there could have ever been such controversy over this ring. If this had been a cap skull or eagle, it would have been dismissed in a few seconds. It's full of flaws. Just my thoughts.

Chris

Yes, OR something went wrong with the strike or the casting or whatever/however it was formed and this area has to be cleaned up by hand. Yes, I doubt it, but I am very much for trying to get to the bottom of things when most everything is right or correct or compelling in how an item turns up....but there are some aspects to it that have not been seen before.

Another collector and myself started the question on the Frank ring that launched that 51 page thread, this was after a previous short thread on the ring that was a more or less a love fest with it.

I am not judging the ring at this point because as Tanker said, there were not good photos posted, but the flaw that you Identified in the back is a big problem that has to be understood....and I still say that I am not crazy about the way the Skull and bones are formed and mounted...but this needs more study by me before saying that they are bad.

[SScollector]

Well, if it is real, then it was abviousy made from a completely different skull die, as well as the ring die. The skull on that ring isn't even close to being the same skull as those that are typically found on 40's style rings. The enhancements that were done to these rings were very minor, (mostly the teeth and jaw lines). They did not change the basic look of the skull though, IMO, as to the hand tooling process. Just my thoughts.

Chris

[11C]

Sold for $7395

http://nsdapuniforms.com/engine/insp...SDAP+Militaria

[sgstandard]

Frank TK Ring

I remember the "love fest" over the Frank ring........everyone ooh-ing and ahh-ing, and slobbering all over it. I was considered a heretic for criticizing it at the time. It's not only the obvious flaws in that last photo, but notice how the "scalloping" on the leaves made the leaf surfaces "flat", as opposed to the ring in the photo above it. They were trying to mimic the scalloping on original rings, but got carried away. I can tell you flat-out that there's no way in hell that a totenkopfring ever left the Gahr factory looking screwed-up like that.

[der-hase-fee]

Alfred Zoratto

I am all for provenance !

[phild]

Sold for $7395

http://nsdapuniforms.com/engine/insp...SDAP+Militaria

IMO 7-8K has for years been the top price range that most could get for nice (but not mint) 40s style rings from typical holders....a lot of factors could increase the value, but the 7-8k was pretty typical...so I don't see a lot of movement downward. Some dealers could get more as they can with every kind of item at some times and/or if they leave it for sale long enough.

I don't ever recall seeing average TK rings flying off the shelf for even 10k....but some would sell when on the market for a year or two...at some price or trade terms unknown to me.

The ring that is linked is very nice, but not close to mint. The 42 date is a plus and it is a plus that the holder was in the SS since 1931, but he ended up a 2ndLt and I don't see much of a Waffen-SS combat connection or really any heavy duty SS intrique....

[phild]

I remember the "love fest" over the Frank ring........everyone ooh-ing and ahh-ing, and slobbering all over it. I was considered a heretic for criticizing it at the time. It's not only the obvious flaws in that last photo, but notice how the "scalloping" on the leaves made the leaf surfaces "flat", as opposed to the ring in the photo above it. They were trying to mimic the scalloping on original rings, but got carried away. I can tell you flat-out that there's no way in hell that a totenkopfring ever left the Gahr factory looking screwed-up like that.

You were the "another collector" that I mentioned in my post above.

Another thing to consider on the Frank ring (and this applies to the skull relationship to the bone ends as well on it) is notice how there is a "trench" around all of the symbol borders and the leaves that normally touch them are almost touch them.

I mean to say that there is a very strong relief border on the exterior of all of the symbol frames........this is also true of the bone ends and the skull sides. This really makes this ring stand out and look very strong and imposing, but has ANYONE seen this on a known real one?

It would have HAD to have been made like this and could NOT have been detailed to show this after striking or casting...as metal would have been removed from either the leaves or the symbol frame.

[tanker]

.........................

[Robert H]

certain individuals we propably well know crashed this market about their own hunger for money, but of course thats nothing new. To many stinker rings everywhere, be aware and very careful.

[phild]

Going back to the original question and subject of this thread "Honor Ring Prices", I see no real change in the prices that HRs are bringing...much less any kind of crash. The one exception being that the top end of the prices that were being asked (by some) and sometimes paid have leveled off.

One thing is a constant in this hobby and that is people are always complaining that prices are too high and that they are too low....often the same people at the same time......I have never understood it.

As to what an HR should sell for in terms of real value? I have no idea, I think that it is and should be market driven like every other item. No dealer or dealers have cornered the HR market or any other market so no dealer is responsible of anything regarding the prices that these are selling for.

The fakes are getting very good and that applies to everything....but that has been the case for a long time.

Given that SS cap sets (eagle and skull) typically sell for $1500-$2000 and rare makes even more and given that there would have been at least 100,000 sets made...if not 2-3X that number ...and given that the fakes are very well done (and getting better each year)and that no one seems too upset about that area in terms of fakes or prices.....just to cite one small example of comparison......is it that off balance that an HR might bring about 4X that price?

[Michael Fay]

As to what an HR should sell for in terms of real value? I have no idea, I think that it is and should be market driven like every other item. No dealer or dealers have cornered the HR market or any other market so no dealer is responsible of anything regarding the prices that these are selling for.

Unless there is collusion. Only need a few in this specific area.

In the era before the depression, everyone else would simply follow the economic law of recalculating their prices higher- or get their better priced rings bought out of the market.

[der-hase-fee]

In a market with very limited supply the prices can be driven up by someone with dedication and deep enough pockets exorbitantly. Just make fellow collectors turn green with envy with clever postings on a highly frequented forum. Almost sounds like a retirement plan !

The HR may not be as limited in supply. From my observation, prices have come down, and I do not expect this trend to change in the mid term.

It is quality that makes the difference.

[BrianK]

Very good points. And how do we know that when a Dealer marks a item "Sold" it is really sold? He could just as well take it off sale, put it on the shelf, and 2 years later when he thinks the market has improved say in 2015, "Well, here is the ring I sold Mr. X back in 2013 for $6995. Now you know folks this is a really rare ring, according to the experts only 200 still exist, so I am asking today only $8995, a fair price considering what this one sold for back in 2013."

[Michael Fay]

Very good points. And how do we know that when a Dealer marks a item "Sold" it is really sold? He could just as well take it off sale, put it on the shelf, and 2 years later when he thinks the market has improved say in 2015, "Well, here is the ring I sold Mr. X back in 2013 for $6995. Now you know folks this is a really rare ring, according to the experts only 200 still exist, so I am asking today only $8995, a fair price considering what this one sold for back in 2013."

Probably done with all items -when "required."