A Public Apology from Al Haag

[nutmeg]

Well, leave it to me to be the voice of dissent. I don't care if you(Robin) decide to stay or go, I don't really think it's a matter for you to decide but rather the forum administrator and moderators. It is an insult to me, and should be to the rest of the forum members, that you would call this whole scheme a 'mistake'. It wasn't a mistake, like oops I didn't mean to do that. What you did was a deliberate and planned attempt to deceive the collecting community - Why, because you had a hunch? You say that you were well-intentioned, and of course you expect us to take you at your word, so why then just not post under your own name and conduct a fact based discussion? Should we believe you now because you say you are telling the truth?
The problem you have created here is twofold. One, is the damage you have done to collecting community by being party to these kind of lies and escalating collector paranoia. Two, is the damage you have done to you're own name. Speaking for myself, you have no credibility to me as a collector nor as an historian. Did you even think about the ramifications this might have on your 'reputation' as a historian? Perhaps from now on, any future publisher will require you to use footnotes/endnotes when you write, just so we can all be sure...Robin, I think you nothing more than a lying, deceitful person and that you are a disgrace to the collecting community. For everyone who will surely say I am being to harsh, here's one to think about - How far would this have gone had Gary not put an end to it? How many more lies would have been told?
The saddest point for you Robin, and the one that truly speaks as to your character, comes from your own words: 'What this has taught me, among other things, is that no-one is really anonymous here - even people who don't exist! We can all be 'tracked'. Was this the lesson to be learned from all this? That even though you think you are being sneaky, you can't ever be sneaky enough. The irony here is just too much, as these are the words of a police officer. One would have thought that there was a different lesson to be learned here...John

I go alone with this. Attempting to fake evidence to prove a point removes credibly for good from my perspective. Makes you wonder if this has been going on under other names.

[macki]

This is one reasion i don't post but i got to agree with John

[Patrick Dempsey]

After following the threads in question i find myself in the "dissent" column also.
Whilst not a poster in this forum of any regularity i do have a small collection of SS cloth insignia.As such, i have and continue to use this forum as a major research resource on such items. I own a couple of Dachau produced pieces and have never entertained any doubt as to their originality. That is a personal decision that i make as a collector based on the available evidence i can draw from. Previous threads regarding Dachau items have produced interesting discussion regarding these pieces, but never any actual proof that they are multiple decades spanning, advanced cloth collector fooling, conspiracy forming, super fakes...

Others take an opposite view and would not entertain having such an item in their collections. I think we can all agree that this is the healthy state that we should be aiming for in the collecting community.

But when that difference of opinion mutates into an identity hiding, agenda pushing, muddying of the waters, that makes me very uneasy indeed. One of the central issues for me is the point that a falsehood being perpetrated on every single member and guest (for lets not forget that the discussion migrated to other forums too) on this forum was picked up by the alert attentions of a moderator. If it was not for this prompt action, this falsehood from a fake identity with a fake past would still be circulating.

I just hope that some collector somewhere has not sold his collection of "fake" Dachau produced insignia over the past week due to the actions of a single member.

Does the forum as a whole wish to be seen to condone this behaviour?

Does the forum as a whole think that credibility is strengthened by the continued posting of such a member?

I can of course simply hit my "ignore posting by.." option to solve my own personal credibility issues.
But there is a bigger picture than this......

I too wish no witch-hunt. That will be a needlessly poisonous, destructive affair that will damage our forums in a similar way that has occurred elsewhere on other forums.

But i cannot see how this member can continue to post.

Patrick.

[Blindpew]

Wow don't know whether to laugh or cry.Read the posts and deceit thing.I can see why you guys would be angry.It did get some debate going!

Loved the "once upon a time thread".Stay and redeem yourself man!

"To err is human, to forgive is divine?"

Apart from that I'm saying nothing in case I get lifted in the near future

[Elvis]

I do not think you should go anywhere Robin. Things happen, its fixed, I sure you understand why it caused some trouble, leave it at that. We really can't afford to lose any authorities in this hobby.

[Luftm40]

IMO..don't let the screen door catch your a$# on the way out. This hobby is full of enough trickery and deceit without having to sort thru the same type of BS perpetrated by a so called "authority" and respected name. Your game was childish and dishonest...enough said.

[Bill D.]

"

[Stossgruppe3]

David

I too agree with Andy " Nutmeg " and John. How can anyone trust your opinions now ...... ? You have been your own worst enemy. You only have yourself to blame.

[Ian Jewison]

Robin,
I am very suprised, a man of your position!....if this how the police work...then god help us
If you do go, no doubt you will become a moderator on one of the other forums

[SgtB]

Robin,

I've read your apology and I accept it, even though, like John, I'm not
sure you've learned all the right lessons from this debacle.

There can be no doubt that you are extremely intelligent, very talented,
and have a deep passion for this hobby. I have read with great interest
many of your posts over the past months and we have agreed and
disagreed on a number of occasions. Recently, your 'Wewelsburg' post
was enjoyed by everybody here.

But near the beginning of that thread you replied to me that, "Obsession
is my middle name!" with a wink and a nod. And even then I couldn't help
feel that your attitude was much like that of a drunk driver as he leaves
the party saying, "I'm fine - everything's under control!" Right before
he crashes and burns.

Well your damn obsession with these Dachau tabs caused you to crash
and burn. And you took a lot of people with you.

What's up with that? Of course there are kajillions of fakes of these tabs
floating around. So what? There are also oodles of originals out there.
Just because Mr. Robin Lumsden, himself has never personally gotten
one from a vet doesn't mean nobody else has. Guess what? I never
have either. But I have never doubted, for one second, their existance.
I saw and handled them 25 years ago, and no they weren't made
in a little shop in the depths of bufu France somewhere by a guy named
Georges!

Just the testimonies of some of the most respected names in this field
should be enough for you. But no, you have to play Scotland Yard gum-
shoe and go sneaking around the back way. Well thank God there are
better detectives around here than that, or we might all still be playing
that game.

That's all I care to say about it. I've preached way too much already
for such a sinner.

I will say that I have no desire to see you leave. If you go now, this
episode will always be there with you. If you stay and try to make
amends, over time it will be largely forgotten.

Good Luck!


P.S.

Your books will stay right here on my shelf. They've brought me much
more enjoyment over the years than their cost.

[Jason Roberts]

One error in judjement does not warrant banishment IMO.

The apology was sincere and I think you should stay put.

Jason

[Mike C]

Sorry - but Lumsden weighed in as one of our members was trying to assess the purchase of an item that he desired. Granted - it was not a hugely expensive item, but it was an honest tab. And the potential was there that this member (and others) could have lost money. Imagine if you had your eye on an honest piece you wanted but passed because of a deliberate deception? Sorry - but I would be pissed. Bottom line: with authority comes responsibility.

Mike

[Jack]

Not accepted

Hello all,
there have been debates over S&L Rk,Army Para badges and other things and they have become heated but nobody went out of his way to decieve any body by saying he had a shop and was selling the said item as a fake.If this was some noob maybe yea all is forgiven 2nd chance but you as a copper,collector and author on this subject you should know better!If this was not picked up so early how much damage could you have caused to this hobby not to mention to other collectors of ss gear.Maybe if you came clean much earlier.You posted a thread of how you were hauled over the coals for your collecting in the paper EctEct and everbody stuck up for you this is how you repay their respect for you.
Cheers Jack(Rob)

[johnrtse]

While there was an extreme lapse in judgement, I feel that if Robin leaves, WE are the ones that will lose from this mess.


JMO,
John

[Robert H]

Kindergarten, a kid would know not to do such things at all.
Robin, whenever you come back please use your real name then.
When not don´t forget to buy the IP adress box