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**A c h t u n g !** · 09-15-2012, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by brooksbz View Post

Roger above. Mr. Singer has always been extremely patient with me and is input is highly regarded. I hope he continues to post. It benefits us all.

You can always PM/email to Mr. Singer or other collectors that you like --> Usually they are all very friendly and ready to help. Bryon certainly is one of them (thank you again).

**Felix** · 09-15-2012, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by Glenn McInnes View Post

So you would rather very knowledgeable collectors remain silent because they are not willing to explain why?

Not sure if I understand that logic.

Now,several of these knowledgeable collectors just might take you up on that,and in the mean time collectors will get screwed because no one "who really knows the subject" will speak up.

Glenn

I second that.

I have many times tried to explain into details why items are bad and still got pissed by members why do not like negative answers. Most often though it helps.

I have gotten tired of over and over explain the same information which is already posted on this forum by different members. What for? Should I spend my time, or should the poster try to spend his time using the search function and educate himself? Of course we are here to educate and share information, but everything has limits, especially when you get pissed at.

I fully understand those who remain silent, but of course also get frustrated by the same behavior.

I think its a big difference between common "easy to spot" items and advanced matters and items.

However no one could force someone to explain. If so, this forum will die.

//Felix

**Pieter Verbruggen** · 09-15-2012, 11:52 AM

To all:

i'm a collector for more than 40years. Started in a time books were limited and no internet. Our knowledege was build up by handling, comparing an discus the items among other collectors.
We walked in a mine field and lost a lot of toes.
Today people start to collect and when on "the forums" they expect the can gathter these 40 years of experience by "clicking" five times on their desktop.

The "ONLY" reason these old "goeroes", these "ego's" or whatever we are called are not putting all our information on the net is to prevent the fakers to make the "perfect" copy.
If you look at the modern fakes of medals and badges, it's scarying how close they are, yust because ALL the info is available.

Do you realy think we will not help fellow collectors to prevent them from mistakes. Of course we would, but not by spreading it all over the net.

I would have been very lucky 40 years ago when I would have had the possibility to put an item on a forum for evaluation befor I bought it.
Even when the reaction was only

,

...I would at least know there was some controversy on the item I wanted to buy. and if I realy wanted to get deeper I would have found out WHY.

Today it comes to one point " PROOF IT" or shut up....and if you do not share all your info you are an asshole.

For myself I can say, I help were I can but certainly not by revealing importand info on the net.

For everyone else ...do your homework...like we did.

And now you may shoot me

Pieter.

**Dr. Strangelove** · 09-15-2012, 12:05 PM

agreed

Originally posted by Pieter Verbruggen View Post

To all:

i'm a collector for more than 40years. Started in a time books were limited and no internet. Our knowledege was build up by handling, comparing an discus the items among other collectors.
We walked in a mine field and lost a lot of toes.
Today people start to collect and when on "the forums" they expect the can gathter these 40 years of experience by "clicking" five times on their desktop.

The "ONLY" reason these old "goeroes", these "ego's" or whatever we are called are not putting all our information on the net is to prevent the fakers to make the "perfect" copy.
If you look at the modern fakes of medals and badges, it's scarying how close they are, yust because ALL the info is available.

Do you realy think we will not help fellow collectors to prevent them from mistakes. Of course we would, but not by spreading it all over the net.

I would have been very lucky 40 years ago when I would have had the possibility to put an item on a forum for evaluation befor I bought it.
Even when the reaction was only

,

...I would at least know there was some controversy on the item I wanted to buy. and if I realy wanted to get deeper I would have found out WHY.

Today it comes to one point " PROOF IT" or shut up....and if you do not share all your info you are an asshole.

For myself I can say, I help were I can but certainly not by revealing importand info on the net.

For everyone else ...do your homework...like we did.

And now you may shoot me

Pieter.

I totally agree, people now are spoiled.

Back in the Day you had to take pictures of your items and mail them to each other !!!! Crazy.

No Books, No Internet

**sam1chlt** · 09-15-2012, 12:15 PM

I post everything before purchasing and the members of this forum are the best resource I have come across. I am new and in the process of buying / reading all the books I can to learn more. I also research old posts and the references that are made available here.

Thanks to all of you for your opinions and knowledge!!!

Best Regards,

Sam

**Pieter Verbruggen** · 09-15-2012, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by sam1chlt View Post

I post everything before purchasing and the members of this forum are the best resource I have come across. I am new and in the process of buying / reading all the books I can to learn more. I also research old posts and the references that are made available here.

Thanks to all of you for your opinions and knowledge!!!

Best Regards,

Sam

Well i' m sure you will build a nice collection with this attitude

Good luck, and a lot of joy !
Pieter.

**besslein** · 09-15-2012, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post

I totally agree, people now are spoiled.

Back in the Day you had to take pictures of your items and mail them to each other !!!! Crazy.

No Books, No Internet

i remember that times,well few times i have to travel a long way to meet another collector that know the items better as me ,now its easy,just put photos on forum and wait what the guys say abaut,realy easy....today for new collectors.

**Pieter Verbruggen** · 09-15-2012, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by besslein View Post

i remember that times,well few times i have to travel a long way to meet another collector that know the items better as me ,now its easy,just put photos on forum and wait what the guys say abaut,realy easy....today for new collectors.

...and it was more fun than now, no?
Bests Pieter.

**DougB** · 09-15-2012, 12:46 PM

The "fast food" collector is a by product of the information age. Everybody's wants information right away and everyone's an instant expert on everything now, from heart disease to human psychology to SS Totenkopf rings. As has been said. Search and destroy!

Also the risk of one or two "experts" using "proprietary knowledge" to corner a collecting genre are great and I point to the beast that almost was borne out of XRF in Helmet "authentication".

In my opinion there does need to be some balance in order to educate those wanting to share an interest in the various genre's of collecting, (the new collector).

It is better when a knowledge pool is deep and full of competent swimmers than shallow with one or two. But one must learn to swim to jump into the pool as well.

It's all about some form of balance between "it's fake" to a full on expose. Knowledge and networking much can be gained.

**John Pic** · 09-15-2012, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by Glenn McInnes View Post

So you would rather very knowledgeable collectors remain silent because they are not willing to explain why?

Not sure if I understand that logic.

Now,several of these knowledgeable collectors just might take you up on that,and in the mean time collectors will get screwed because no one "who really knows the subject" will speak up.

Glenn

Im beginning to just stay quiet...there are so many posts and a great search engine to use to learn about Real vs. Fake on the common SS cloth items yet people fail to use these tools. For many things too there is no detailed explination...it just is. Most of them are feeler posts too..someone hoping to make a quick estand buck on something they do not know anything about.

**ErichS** · 09-15-2012, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by John Pic View Post

Im beginning to just stay quiet...there are so many posts and a great search engine to use to learn about Real vs. Fake on the common SS cloth items yet people fail to use these tools. For many things too there is no detailed explination...it just is. Most of them are feeler posts too..someone hoping to make a quick estand buck on something they do not know anything about.

John, you are 100% correct. A lot of us older collectors only had reference books back in the day and now with forums like this one, there are many originals that folks can compare their example with. Come on people do a little homework on the pieces that you want to collect!

**besslein** · 09-15-2012, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by Pieter Verbruggen View Post

...and it was more fun than now, no?
Bests Pieter.

well that was fun? yes it was,few houers drive only to show a single item,but always a good coffee ,and nice meeting.

**dave peifer** · 09-15-2012, 05:17 PM

i have read this thread with great interest and would like to add that my opinion has always been,do your own research and form your own opinions for you as the collecter has to be satisfied that an item in your collection is real ,not saying that the opinions of a specialized collecter are not valued.i have spent countless hours with the search function and have learned quiet a lot and agree with the good docter that in a while you pick up on the posted opinions you can count on.i have been at this as has been said before any printed material of real value was available and still enjoy the challenge as much as 50 years ago.i have always said you could take almost any item to a show and show it to 5 people and almost always get 3 opinions.bottom line is you have to have many years of experience and in the end form your own learned opinions you need to be comfortable with an item.............dave

**Fritz** · 09-15-2012, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by David Guist View Post

Frtiz sorry for the misunderstanding sent you a message about the infraction.

Thank you for your PM, David. We all make mistakes and I see the infraction has been reversed.

Cheers

**Michael Fay** · 09-15-2012, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by A c h t u n g ! View Post

The "Silence" usually means "nothing to say".

.

I have found that sometimes "Silence" means two possible scenarios:

A; no one wants to make enemies with the member who is showing somthing with problems because this same member is also a dealer who sells them nice things.

B; no one wants to get attacked by a seemingly raving mad member who will make you appear sullied by the ensuing egomaniacal "discussion/mud-slinging,"simply by one daring to bring up concerns.

These two scenarios are very applicable to the issues that started this thread.

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