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**A c h t u n g !** · 09-15-2012, 05:33 AM

Originally posted by David Guist View Post

I am not know for being gracefull .

It only takes one comment like I dont like it or its fake with no reason why to kill a high dollar item.

If you know an item is a fake / repo . Fine state it and why.
If you know an item is real / good. Fine state why.

It is very gracefull of you actually thank you.

**viva_giulio** · 09-15-2012, 05:49 AM

this is the most important topic of waf since too many years.
thank you Guist.

**Glenn McInnes** · 09-15-2012, 06:08 AM

So you would rather very knowledgeable collectors remain silent because they are not willing to explain why?

Not sure if I understand that logic.

Now,several of these knowledgeable collectors just might take you up on that,and in the mean time collectors will get screwed because no one "who really knows the subject" will speak up.

Glenn

**David Guist** · 09-15-2012, 06:25 AM

There is a diffrence in a discussion and an ego match. If knowledgable collectors are not expaining why . No one is learning any thing any way. I know they dont want the fakers to get there tips. The fakers allready know . It is the new collectors that need to know why an item is good / Bad. They are not going to let the fakes know any thing they dont already know. Best regards.

**Fritz** · 09-15-2012, 07:01 AM

I am having difficulties in finding the paragraph in the forum rules that requires me to explain my opinion. Can anybody help me out here? It may well be there but if so I must have missed it.

I, for one, will withdraw from that matter anyways as I already took an infraction for that other thread, hence I think all that is not worth it.

Cheers

**David Guist** · 09-15-2012, 07:12 AM

Frtiz sorry for the misunderstanding sent you a message about the infraction. But it is not in the rules you have to explain any thing. But it is nice to know why a $3,000 to what ever dollar piece is going to be killed by one post that says I dont like it or it is fake. Then you never hear from that poster again. Ones some one makes a post like that the rest will follow not even realy knowing why. I see it on here all the time. Best regards.

**Kurt Meyer** · 09-15-2012, 07:15 AM

Originally posted by Glenn McInnes View Post

So you would rather very knowledgeable collectors remain silent because they are not willing to explain why?

Not sure if I understand that logic.

Now,several of these knowledgeable collectors just might take you up on that and in the mean time collectors will get screwed because no one "who really knows the subject" will speak up.

Glenn

I agree, I think many knowledgeable collectors will be silent and other collectors will bump there head, because the members who are out for a status will response and fail in there opinion. Wenn a item is fake and much money has been lost they would most of the time accept a PM from you if they could explain there opinion and I think there is nothing wrong with it..

Why are the fakers allready know how to fake perfectly? I think in some cased Yes but on a smale scale, if this will happend in a large scale the SS market will collapse, what then?

**A c h t u n g !** · 09-15-2012, 07:18 AM

IMO it is rather a few knowledgeable collectors remain silent than dozens of those who don't know the subject speak up. Too many good items have been ruined; too many bad items "promoted" to original. I myself saw perfectly original and very rare/expensive items going for pennies on Estand after they were ruined in such discussions.

**Glenn McInnes** · 09-15-2012, 07:21 AM

Get ready for a whole lot of silence David,don't think that will do anyone any good.

No one should feel obligated to say anything,it should be up to them to make that decision.This is afterall a public Forum and there is nothing in the rules that state you have to "prove" your opinion.

Glenn

**Dr. Strangelove** · 09-15-2012, 07:22 AM

Items

The English language is very limited in explaining why some items are fake.

SS Officer Bullion Sleeve Eagles for example. I know when they are bad, but I cannot always explain why, it just takes years of looking at them to understand them and much study. I cannot spoon feed that knowledge to somebody on the WAF, it has to be earned.

And fakers do follow these Threads and take notes.

And, honestly, if I could just look at pics on my Computer and read explanations and it was all black and white the Hobby would bore me. I like to Study and work, it is rewarding.

Sometimes I feel like people are asking me to explain a shade of Gray....think about it.

**Glenn McInnes** · 09-15-2012, 07:27 AM

Originally posted by David Guist View Post

If knowledgable collectors are not expaining why . They are not going to let the fakes know any thing they dont already know.

Wanna bet?

I have seen fakes improve because of certain things being said....Have also seen many known fakers viewing several of these threads.

How do you prove that something original is original? How do you explain it?

Glenn

**Glenn McInnes** · 09-15-2012, 07:35 AM

Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post

The English language is very limited in explaining why some items are fake.

SS Officer Bullion Sleeve Eagles for example. I know when they are bad, but I cannot always explain why, it just takes years of looking at them to understand them and much study. I cannot spoon feed that knowledge to somebody on the WAF, it has to be earned.

And fakers do follow these Threads and take notes.

And, honestly, if I could just look at pics on my Computer and read explanations and it was all black and white the Hobby would bore me. I like to Study and work, it is rewarding.

Sometimes I feel like people are asking me to explain a shade of Gray....think about it.

...Exactly!

Glenn

**A c h t u n g !** · 09-15-2012, 07:46 AM

Original is original .if there are no concerns and no red flag raised, then nothing needs to be explained, no need to prove anything.

The "Silence" usually means "nothing to say".

Faker that cannot make a "perfect fake" without our help, will never be able to make it.

Good faker just like a good artist will know on his own how to make a "masterpiece".

**David Guist** · 09-15-2012, 07:48 AM

Originally posted by A c h t u n g ! View Post

IMO it is rather a few knowledgeable collectors remain silent than dozens of those who don't know the subject speak up. Too many good items have been ruined; too many bad items "promoted" to original. I myself saw perfectly original and very rare/expensive items going for pennies on Estand after they were ruined in such discussions.

I ageer. These are all issues that have been around for a long time. I never said it was a rule. But it is an issue that is ruining the hobby. No disrepct intended to any experts or book wrighters ex. But dont you thnk the fakers read this forum and the book that are wrote ? I new I was getting up in front of a fireing squad and thats part of whats wrong with the hobby today. Every one should feel free to post an item or comment with out being made fun of or haveing there item bashed with out saying why. Say goes for an item being good. It should be a place to discuss items not bash and run or fight over whos wrong or right. Whos the better expert and so on. No one that comes on here wants to read a thread with a couple expert bashing each othere. Best regards.

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