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**viva_giulio** · 09-15-2012, 07:51 AM

there is a middle zone beetwen recent situazion on cover topic and the reason exposed by Glenn, Kurt and Fritz.
In my honest opinion I think that it is the behavior assumptions that have driven away many top collectors.

Cause this room lost the soul of some years ago.

I think not serve to list the many world-renowned experts who aren't writing since 2 years ago.

I like very much the position of Guist.

Some fake are obvious... nobody will ask too much if you will say "fake" to an obvious fake but when an expensive, rare items are shown must justify a little why we want put it on the rubbish.

Question involved:

1) respect to the member who has courage to post it, yes cause in the last 2 years a collector must have COURAGE to post non-textbook item or field made item... or something different from a certain "american taste"

2) respect to other members

3) we "judge" extremely expensive item

4) reputation of member

**B. N. Singer** · 09-15-2012, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by Glenn McInnes View Post

So you would rather very knowledgeable collectors remain silent because they are not willing to explain why?

Glenn

Sir,

Creditable opinions/advises, unless supported by a reason, seem no longer of value in this and other forums.

This prevailing attitude of insisting on an explanation for an opinion is precisely why I will no longer give mine.

With regards,
B. N. Singer

**bwanek1** · 09-15-2012, 07:58 AM

Sure, it is better to teach a man to fish than to give him a fish, but, even if you just give him a fish, he still has a fish, which is better than nothing!

You are telling people that if they don't (for whatever reason) want to give a detailed explanation why an item is fake that they should remain silent.

So, unless someone with greater knowledge is willing to share in detail why he knows something to be fake, he is supposed to say nothing, not even warning a potential buyer that the item he is considering buying is fake, and simply allow him to make a costly mistake? I fail to see how that will improve this forum or help those interested in this hobby.

**David Guist** · 09-15-2012, 08:03 AM

Where is the hobby going to and who is it going to go to in the future ? If new collectors dont know what is what who is going to profit the most ? As older collectors leave us that information leaves us as well. Who benefits from that ? No you dont have to explain why you dont like an item or it is fake. But new collectors are just going to start disregarding those comments as they serve no perpose .

**A c h t u n g !** · 09-15-2012, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by bwanek1 View Post

Sure, it is better to teach a man to fish than to give him a fish, but, even if you just give him a fish, he still has a fish, which is better than nothing!

You are telling people that if they don't (for whatever reason) want to give a detailed explanation why an item is fake that they should remain silent.

So, unless someone with greater knowledge is willing to share in detail why he knows something to be fake, he is supposed to say nothing, not even warning a potential buyer that the item he is considering buying is fake, and simply allow him to make a costly mistake? I fail to see how that will improve this forum or help those interested in this hobby.

Good if people that give an opinion really know what they are talking about. Unfortunatelly it is more often other way around - it seems every man and his dog on this forum has an opinion and "knows it all" only because everyone here wants to be "an expert" and it takes nothing (no knowledge, no experience, no resposibility, no farther actions, no explanations) just to post "I don't like it!" or "Fake IMO".. and then what we should silently eat it?

**Dr. Strangelove** · 09-15-2012, 08:15 AM

search function

I know what I do when I need to learn, I USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION ON WAF. IT IS AN AWESOME TOOL.

And if your filter for information is good you will soon learn who knows what they are talking about and who does not. If you cannot figure that out I can't help you. Some people just don't have a good filter to know good advice from bad.

**A c h t u n g !** · 09-15-2012, 08:25 AM

Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post

I know what I do when I need to learn, I USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION ON WAF. IT IS AN AWESOME TOOL.

And if your filter for information is good you will soon learn who knows what they are talking about and who does not. If you cannot figure that out I can't help you. Some people just don't have a good filter to know good advice from bad.

Yes, good tool and only because when searching the forum you FIND that INFO GIVEN by knowledgeable collectors in discussions before. But if there were no info given? only "I like it" or "I don't"? Wouldn't it be useless thing to do?

Advice is always good. Facts are better.

**David Guist** · 09-15-2012, 08:35 AM

I just feel in my personal opinion this forum and its members should lead the way for the future of the hobby. I would like to see it go in a possative direction. Makeing the hobby a fun and informative place for the new collectors to come. Best regards.

**derka** · 09-15-2012, 08:36 AM

Originally posted by David Guist View Post

". But new collectors are just going to start disregarding those comments as they serve no perpose ".

then it is their choice, if they don't want to take care of those comments and who expressed them.
if those new collectors (ie without appropriate experience considering what they are looking for) prefer to ignore those comments because they just don't understand what could be behind.
if they consider those "short" comments are worthless because they are no detailled explainations exposed, it is their right.

but as Glenn pointed, then if on this forum you are not free to comment the way you like, then lots of people will prefer to remain silent, and it will be a loss.

of course, i would prefer too in some difficult cases to have deeper debates, because i have lots of things to learn.
if not, this is not a problem : an opinion expressed is only an opinion, nothing more; after it only depends WHO express it, and the credit you give to his words, and it is certainly NOT a question of "killing" a hight price item (wich should stand by itself).
there are many other ways to learn than to trust blindly comments made on a forum, even a good one like WAF ; collecting is not like going to the supermaket because your wallet is full.
you have to deserve what you want without being dependant of other's opinion.

derka

**petopoint** · 09-15-2012, 09:00 AM

positive

As a newer member but longtime collector I always try to be positive on any replies and spread the accolades accordingly. There is no need to be disparaging to someone who may have something they've had for many years, thinking the item is authentic when in reality is not.

Peto at point

**Glenn McInnes** · 09-15-2012, 09:16 AM

Originally posted by B. N. Singer View Post

Sir,

Creditable opinions/advises, unless supported by a reason, seem no longer of value in this and other forums.

This prevailing attitude of insisting on an explanation for an opinion is precisely why I will no longer give mine.

With regards,
B. N. Singer

That's too bad Mr Singer but I suspected that this was the reason...Hope you reconsider down the road.

Best Regards,
Glenn

**brooksbz** · 09-15-2012, 09:29 AM

post

I don't much reason to post in German forums for the reasons discussed here. So if post count is important than this is an important topic. I believe that knowledge is power, and knowledge will bust a fake. Withholding knowledge only causes a vacuum that empowers a faker. Many disagree but I don't think a faker can ever replicate an item in every detail. This forum is generally good about knowledge in most categories, so I agree with the good Doctor about the search function. I like the pre-2009 discussions. Things begin to change after that.

**jacquesf** · 09-15-2012, 09:35 AM

IMO everyone should post as much or as little information as he wants. It is up to other members to put a value to the different comments. Do a bit of research and analise posters and there experience and expertise. For me a one liner from a BN Singer or one of the others whose opinion I have learned to trust means more than a two page rambling thread. Guys you got a brain for reason , use it. Jacques

**brooksbz** · 09-15-2012, 09:47 AM

roger

Roger above. Mr. Singer has always been extremely patient with me and is input is highly regarded. I hope he continues to post. It benefits us all.

**A c h t u n g !** · 09-15-2012, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by jacquesf View Post

IMO everyone should post as much or as little information as he wants. It is up to other members to put a value to the different comments. Do a bit of research and analise posters and there experience and expertise. For me a one liner from a BN Singer or one of the others whose opinion I have learned to trust means more than a two page rambling thread. Guys you got a brain for reason , use it. Jacques

Here is a common scenario:
You have posted a Waffen-SS officers visor cap on Estand for sale for $10,000.
Immideately, you have got a PM from a collector from Japan who wants to buy it but before he paypal you the money he wants to post it in the SS forum for opinions - "just to make sure". You know the cap is original, from a good source, you know this cap for 30 years, all your friends-collectors always only praised it, of course you say "Sure, go ahead, no problem".
Here the fun begins..
Some collectors on the forum say "Oh, textbook! isn't the same cap in Beaver's book?" but some "new member" with low counts says "it is 1oo% fake and will never be original, I know it as a fact, but I won't telll you why".
The guy from Japan is hardly ever browse the forums, he is only interested in Estand section. He does not know difference between "new member" and Wolfe-Hardin for example. He sends you another PM "I like the cap but screw it, I don't want to risk".
Whould you say "Thank you" to "know it-all" member who does not even bother explain why he just ruined your deal and your item because no collector would take a risk and buy your visor for 10000. Well maybe for 100 yes and have a nice day!

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