Hermann Fegelein's SS General tunic at HH

[Spanish Freiwillige]

My true desire when I write this, is:

I would hate to see somebody, a collector, get burned and see another corrupt fraudulent dealer make a huge profit at his expense.

If Dealers knew there was a legal mean and system that would pursue these actions and put them in jail + a huge fine.......

Believe me, we would see less and less of this supposed great once in a lifetime things or groups…..

[Glenn McInnes]

If Dealers knew there was a legal mean and system that would pursue these actions and put them in jail + a huge fine.......

Believe me, we would see less and less of this supposed great once in a lifetime things or groups…..

Kind of like hunting animals,if the animals had guns I doubt the majority of hunters would go hunting them.







Glenn

[Spanish Freiwillige]

Kind of like hunting animals,if the animals had guns I doubt the majority of hunters would go hunting them.

Glenn

Here here!!!!!

[John Pic]

I have probably owned and handled more SS officer tunics than the 4 gentlemen who do not like my personality yet display similar traits they accuse me of in their own posts and I do not recall seeing their collections ever just opinions.

To answer Thorsten's questions...I do put on the fight when it comes to price gauging...by its opinion not grumpiness..honestly a person can charge what they like and a person can also have any opinion they like of that. I sold an SS uniform for $17,000 so Im not the perfect judge.

Ive owned three tunics from Kai Winkler and inspected a fourth...3 had signs of former heer insignias..one of those belonged to a forum member here and he had me inspect it in front of others at the SOS I showed them all with a UV where the breast eagle had once been. The other two were officer cut tunics which had been retailored one had the shadows of a breast eagle and and Edelweiss patch so faint a UV was needed to see them. Another I owned was in brand new mint condition never used or worn ever, perfect insignias in new condition the bullion around the tabs sparkled in light like they just came from the factory...no one could tell if the tunic was put together now or 65 years ago. To this day no one can tell..it sits in a collection I can go look at anytime...my gut feeling was made up post war new tunic with never used original insignias.

Ive owned a few tunics I would say were 100% real and none looked as new or clean as those coming from Kai Winkler.

So now that you want to get flustered and angry at me I would ask you tell me how many original SS officer tunics you have owned that are unquestionable and that you have shared with the public on a forum as I have for the past 12 years ? I have only seen one tunic owned by you Beobachter .....Bobwirtz you only seem to know about Will Schumacher's tunics ....Id say for a guy who said he only collected heer tunics but no longer has any ,you sure like to give a lot of advice to SS collectors. Establishing yourself as a resident "expert" without ever owning anything you give opinion on.

There is an abundance of fraud in this Hobby...and you think by seeing an holding something you can be completely sure it belonged to the person who it is attributed to..and that people are not offered money to say things. You obviously wear Rose colored glasses my friends...especially with the striking examples of fraud surfacing and being exposed right before you here on this forum.....in psychology they call it living in denial.

I am also to believe although not confirmed that Heinz Macher's uniforms have also surfaced somehow...Im sure there are forum members who knew and talked to him when he was alive...the truths will come out.

I am a very happy guy and have a lot of fun in this hobby...for me its not a lifes ambition its just a small part of my life.

[judas]

I have probably owned and handled more SS officer tunics than the 3 gentle men who do not like my personality yet display similar traits they accuse me of in their own posts.

To answer Thorsten's questions...I do put on the fight when it comes to price gauging...by its opinion not grumpiness..honestly a person can charge what they like and a person can also have any opinion they like of that. I sold an SS uniform for $17,000 so Im not the perfect judge.

Ive owned three tunics from Kai Winkler and inspected a fourth...3 had signs of former heer insignias..one of those belonged to a forum member here and he had me inspect it in front of others at the SOS I showed them all with a UV where the breast eagle had once been. The other two were officer cut tunics which had been retailored one had the shadows of a breast eagle and and Edelweiss patch so faint a UV was needed to see them. Another I owned was in brand new mint condition never used or worn ever, perfect insignias in new condition the bullion around the tabs sparkled in light like they just came from the factory...no one could tell if the tunic was put together now or 65 years ago. To this day no one can tell..it sits in a collection I can go look at anytime...my gut feeling was made up post war new tunic with never used original insignias.

Ive owned a few tunics I would say were 100% real and none looked as new or clean as those coming from Kai Winkler.

So now that you want to get flustered and angry at me I would ask you tell me how many original SS officer tunics you have owned that are unquestionable and that you have shared with the public on a forum as I have for the past 12 years ? I have only seen one tunic owned by you Beobachter .....Bobwirtz you only seem to know about Will Schumacher's tunics ....Id say for a guy who said he only collected heer tunics you sure like to give a lot of advice to SS collectors.

There is an abundance of fraud in this Hobby...and you think by seeing an holding something you can be completely sure it belonged to the person who it is attributed to..and that people are not offered money to say things. You obviously wear Rose colored glasses my friends...especially with the striking examples of fraud surfacing and being exposed right before you here on this forum.....in psychology they call it living in denial.

I am also to believe although not confirmed that Heinz Macher's uniforms have also surfaced somehow...Im sure there are forum members who knew and talked to him when he was alive...the truths will come out.

I am a very happy guy and have a lot of fun in this hobby...for me its not a lifes ambition its just a small part of my life.

well put for a minute there i thought i would find my name in the mix after asking you to just say it , i think people should just name the bloody things . i will not be stepping on any feet if $200;000 usa was the asking price of the ribbentrop tunic . a guy here in nz has been flashing his money every were and lets say 5 fake ss tunics later , now if you want to see money and the big guns have a look at peter jackson ( lord of the rings ) i was lucky to see what he has Gorings cap and tunic and it gos on . and we know what they went for . you will not find him on any forum any time soon

[John Pic]

No Judas, you are always upfront and honest I respect your opinions even when you are not happy with me.

[TMurray]

To get this thread back on track, what is the consensus on the Fegelein tunic (based on photos that have been posted)? Is it all legit? Is it an original tunic that's been messed with or just plain messed up?

[Johnny R]

To get this thread back on track, what is the consensus on the Fegelein tunic? Is it all legit? Is it an original tunic that's been messed with or just plain messed up?

I do not think anyone can answer your questions without a hands on and a historical trail back to the owner.

However eloquent, crude, or determined the other statements are they remain subjective without direct evidence for where the tunic came from. You really need to look at each individual tunic etc. and follow the bread crumbs back to crap or find real integrity of all pieces.

[Johnny R]

Kind of like hunting animals,if the animals had guns I doubt the majority of hunters would go hunting them.

Glenn

Unless they were stupid of course. . .

[judas]

I do not think anyone can answer your questions without a hands on and a historical trail back to the owner.

However eloquent, crude, or determined the other statements are they remain subjective without direct evidence for where the tunic came from. You really need to look at each individual tunic etc. and follow the bread crumbs back to crap or find real integrity of all pieces.

true i have been pondering the question for some years now why only one of himmlers tunics the white one yet no others , i was half expecting Reinhard Heydrich;s name to pop up , as i have been asking around for some time about him with hitting brick walls even when i asked at the wannsee confernce house when i was there they had little insite . questions and more questions .. i heard that there is another bormann tunic out there ! . to many smart ass on here now with to many smart ass remarks . to get to the truth of any thing . john pic & bodwitz have said all that needs to be said .. john mite remember me putting up a tuinc i can trace back to 1960 , a bit more than most not named or any thing just a good old combat tunic all i got was the same smart ass .. john was the only one who could put up a discussion with out the bull remarks , so what truth will come of this high ranking tunic . !

[John Pic]

You have to read what I wrote...these tunics are flawless for the most part..all original insignias and possibly original uniforms maybe retailored or not..or made new from all original materials which do exist...you have to know a lot more than just how to tell a tunic is not good..you have to know what has been in play and how the whole collecting machine works....Id say guys who were around from the 1950s and 70s up til now have a good idea what would be a real fantasy item to surface...
Many know how difficult it was just to find a single SS officers tunic let alone a closet full...and some have had the priveledge of meeting families of officers...I lived in Germany for three years..I have some idea of what may have had a chance to survive and what would be considered a longshot..Fritz Witt was killed on the battlefield wearing a custom tailored tunic in the photos the day of his death...how many went with him to the battlefield and how many stayed home? There is alot of supposition when investigating uniforms...Fegelein had an apartment in Berlin he ran to where he was found and later executed outside...that apartment was overran by the Russian's or American's later...how did this uniform end up outside his Berlin apartment..what was the likelyhood of that? Ask these questions of yourself and your eyes will open.

[N.C. Wyeth]

Bottom line:
What counts is what was with the families before the groups changed
ownership.

You probably also belong to the people who belief Heinz Macher's
Thorshammer was really given to him by the Reichsfuehrer, right?
That's right, Heinz Macher wrote the story himself, even signed it
and offered it for years, while he was alive at DEM 75,000.00.
But go and talk to Himmler's nieces and to Gudrun and ask her
about her father's Thorshammer...! Surprise! Heinz needed some
urgent money...

That's it from my side. Over and out.

That is another facet of the conundrum now, isn't it?

Not only are "strange" things popping up, but "strange explanations" to go along . . . and with all the extremely wealthy and equally gullible personalities out there taking interest in these things, I think over the next many years, we're going to see even better things come about that no one will have any explanation for - legitimate or not! The roller-coaster ride has departed!

[Johnny R]

I said enough- it comes down to faith, most people that assert these things are real do not know crap. The people that raise questions are the ones to listen to.

[John Pic]

Judas about 7 years ago a well known dealer sent me photos of one of Himmler's grey tunics it never made the market as it was quickly exposed. I wish I had kept those photos...

[N.C. Wyeth]

The people that raise questions are the ones to listen to.

Amen to that!