SS Dot Wrapper

[A c h t u n g !]

Is 33cms the standard measurement on all SS patterns, Zelts, Tunics and all cammo? Actually after remeasuring, it was closer to 50cms. For reference you can go to Collectors Guild and they have a 4 pocket for sale, if you look at the repeat pattern it's obvious that is longer then 33cms, that translates to 13ins. you can estimate the length of the sleeve about 21.5 inches.

For me yes 33 cm is the standard for original dot pattern camo and the dot camo set on Collectors Guild website http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Waffe...s/S028864.html is a fake. It has the same origin as the fake wrap posted by derka (note rusted buttons) Different materials yes but fakers that made them did really good and made many of their gourments from different materials, you can call it high-end fakes

[besslein]

set from Collectors Guild is real and is very far from posted here fake wrap.

[phild]

I also like the CG 4 pocket set and agree that it is very different from the 2nd wrap (80s) posted in this thread. I have seen these many decades ago in Germany unissued but with rusted buttons and trouser buckles ....BUT it was clear that these had rusted while on the clothing and not prior to being attached as in the case of the 80s wraps.

I now can see that the wrap that started this thread did not have the small steel buttons so I regret any confusion that I may have caused over these.

[Turi]

set from Collectors Guild is real and is very far from posted here fake wrap.

I really like this set

kind regards,

Salvatire

[STUG III]

ss dot

Yes they are nice set on Collectors Guild, but this is the WAF. Believe me I'm more confused now then I was when I first posted the wrapper. I guess there's nothing left to say, but they are fake. Don't ask why just go with it.
Thank God for lighter fluid and matches, the quickest way to get rid of them so they are not sold as originals!! Thanks everyone no further discussion is needed. Dave.

[besslein]

Yes they are nice set on Collectors Guild, but this is the WAF. Believe me I'm more confused now then I was when I first posted the wrapper. I guess there's nothing left to say, but they are fake. Don't ask why just go with it.
Thank God for lighter fluid and matches, the quickest way to get rid of them so they are not sold as originals!! Thanks everyone no further discussion is needed. Dave.

amen

[Scott A. Hess]

IMO the first one posted is bad, I would pass based on the pics for many reasons, for starters, the base material is repro.

[A c h t u n g !]

set from Collectors Guild is real and is very far from posted here fake wrap.

Pictures say thousand words. Below is side-by-side Collectors Guild trousers and a fake pair on the right, front and back of which are costructed of two different HBT materials: please note the front material is the same as the fake wrap from 80-s posted by derka, the material on the back is the same as on the Collectors Guild set. Materials on the back and front are different but both have closer to 50cm pattern-repeat.

Also please note the exact same construction of both trousers.

[derka]

aside the particular case of the camo "dot 44" wrap who started this thread, one comment about the correct lenght for the repeat of the camo dot pattern on an original item is surprising for me.
i thought untill now that this lenght could vary between 48 and 52 cm, depending of different factors.
maybe i'm wrong ?
as i read here that "33 cm is the standard for original dot pattern camo" , and as i'm always ready to learn, i would be interested to have more opinions expressed on this point, particulary from collectors who own such camo "dot 44" items.

thanks by advance.
derka

[Eric Mill]

48 - 52 cm the standard for me

Somewhere between 48 and 52 cm is still the standard for me. All the items I have are within this range.

[Scott A. Hess]

Somewhere between 48 and 52 cm is still the standard for me. All the items I have are within this range.

This cm range is correct, you will see slight variations within this range, between 47.5-51cm I feel comfortable with, I have some 15 pieces of unissued SS dot cloth, pants, jackets, winter, etc, and none of them have 33 cm or anything lower than the range listed above. 33 cm on a dot pair of anything and I would walk away. Those were earlier Janke and other measurements from the 80's, fake material, thats why when you see garments with this small repeat they just dont look right. You will also see MINOR variations on good dot cloth in a few areas, which IMO is perfectly fine. These rollers were not all made at the same place. Study the camo cloth for several hundreds of hours side by side, you will begin to see spots, but you will also see some interesting things.

[Scott A. Hess]

Well I just checked a known good 44 dot pattern ... on the same monitor ... and the dots on the one you posted still look a strange colour.

Ian

The funny teal green color Ian refers to is not correct for this piece, and is a hallmark of the repro Janke cloth that was being sold in approx the mid 80 by New Columbia, this color IS acceptable on the rerversible SS dot Winter garments, Jacket/pants/toque/mittens. If anyone wants to pm me their email address, I can have them post a pair of New Columbia's Janke I owned in 86, I had both the Dot Kielhosen and the dot wrapper, also, picture 14 of the jacket which started out this post should speak volumes. The camo of the dot jacket posted which started this thread is bad, because, it is in effect too "good" quality wise, and does not represent period dot hbt cloth, the smooth pattern dot cloth was of a much better quality, and you wont see in the weave the things you see in the hbt. The first jacket posted is Janke, they fade exactly like this after one wash, and with consecutive washes soften out even more.

[Turi]

This cm range is correct, you will see slight variations within this range, between 47.5-51cm I feel comfortable with, I have some 15 pieces of unissued SS dot cloth, pants, jackets, winter, etc, and none of them have 33 cm or anything lower than the range listed above. 33 cm on a dot pair of anything and I would walk away. Those were earlier Janke and other measurements from the 80's, fake material, thats why when you see garments with this small repeat they just dont look right. You will also see MINOR variations on good dot cloth in a few areas, which IMO is perfectly fine. These rollers were not all made at the same place. Study the camo cloth for several hundreds of hours side by side, you will begin to see spots, but you will also see some interesting things.

[Remy Spezzano]

Just discovered this thread today and have to chime in and say that the wrap
posted in the beginning is not good. The material is really close to original SS DOT HBT
but the construction of the panzer wrap is slightly off from what an original looks like.

Also people need to know one thing about the so called 80's fake dot camo panzer wraps and pants. The pattern is not at all accurate to what the original pattern from the war looks like. To a novice it looks like SS dot camo. But when you REALLY compare the pattern next to a REAL one you clearly see that this 80's camo is really bad and does not compare at all.

There was another excellent thread a few years back where we discussed the topic of SS HBT DOT camo. I will try to find and repost it here.

[Remy Spezzano]

Here is the thread where we discussed the SS HBT DOT pattern.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=184388

I highly recommend spending some time reading through all the posts and looking at all the photos very carefully showing original and fake material comparisons.