SS Dot Wrapper

[STUG III]

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[STUG III]

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[STUG III]

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[A c h t u n g !]

New pictures look good. Camo pattern on originals repeats about every 30-33 cm. Can you measure what is the distance (in cm) between centers of these two shapes on your wrap (in white squares below)?

[alexandre]

From the camo itself, I would pass..
very similar to the different dot 44 HBT set sold by HSC, N&T and major dealers
more than ten years ago.

[derka]

I am far from an “expert” on SS camouflage material (let-a-lone anything else); however the material that this example is made from does not appear (to me) to be the same/similar as the circa 80’s reproductions that I am familiar with.

Perhaps those who are better versed in SS camo cloth can comment more intelligently than I if the material in this wraparound .is Original

B. N. Singer

Phild and Mr Singer, for comparizon,
maybe the 80's fake you are refering to is more like this :













althought different, i'm not too keen about the one shown in this thread.
but it not not my focusing area, so...

derka

[B. N. Singer]

Mr Singer, for comparizon,
maybe the 80's fake you are refering to is more like this...

derka

Exactly Sir, that is the example(s) that I was thinking of. Thank you.

B. N. Singer

[phild]

Exactly Sir, that is the example(s) that I was thinking of. Thank you.

B. N. Singer

Yes it is the same for me as well. I still do however see a lot of strange similarities in some of the details (not the material itself) between these two wraps.

For me the rusted buttons (but mint steel collar hook/eye) need to be explained. The reversed shoulder seams need to be considered as well.

The thread on the 80s wraps all burned out as 100% cotton as I recall. The aged finish on the composition/horn buttons is still suspicious to me.

It is also interesting that both this wrap and the 80s wraps use camo hbt scrap as the inside pocket..and tape tunnels .this is possible, but usually the printed scrap was used in more important places on uniforms and lining material was thinner less useful otherwise material.

The board loops look factory applied...this seems strange on what would have to be a very late generation hbt dot uniform.

I guess the question come down to this:

1. Is the wrap featured in this thread an pre May 45 oriiginal and of the exact variation that served as the pattern for the 80s fakes?

OR

2. Were there variations and progressions in material and detail of the the 80's fakes?

[B. N. Singer]

...It is also interesting that both this wrap and the 80s wraps use camo hbt scrap as the inside pocket..and tape tunnels .this is possible, but usually the printed scrap was used in more important places on uniforms and lining material was thinner less useful otherwise material...

Sir, this manufacturing feature, at least, is consistent with known Original examples.

I would be very interested in hearing from others concerning the Originality of the camouflage material used in the example that started this thread.

B. N. Singer

[phild]

In the interest of pointing out all that I see, I will say that the thread used on the subject wrap appears heavier and different than that used on the 80s wraps and this is even more so for the button thread.......I like the thread much better on this subject wrap than the 80s wraps from what I can tell. Still the metal buttons are very suspicious to me as are some other details that I mentioned earlier.

[STUG III]

ss dot

In answer to your questions about said wrapper, are you saying this has metal buttons? The one in question does not. The paint is clearly gone on the hook and eye on the collar but no rust, probably the way it was stored no moisture got to it. Now as far as the measurements, I was under the impression it was 19 in. from center to center on the repeat for the pattern, this it is. 30-33 cms is about 13 in. way to short. I think it's around 48cm. to measure approx. 19 ins.
The one in question has never had board loops or any insignia ans again the seams are the same as green or white HBT tunics, I compared it to original shoulder seams. Thank all again for your input, this quite a mystery, and for personal reasons I must get to the bottom of this, again thank you all fro your patience, if more photos are needed please don't hesitate to ask. Dave.

[A c h t u n g !]

In the interest of pointing out all that I see, I will say that the thread used on the subject wrap appears heavier and different than that used on the 80s wraps and this is even more so for the button thread.......I like the thread much better on this subject wrap than the 80s wraps from what I can tell. Still the metal buttons are very suspicious to me as are some other details that I mentioned earlier.

Yes, I agree metal buttons are very suspicious to me too ..but there are no metal buttons on the wrap that started this thread

[A c h t u n g !]

In answer to your questions about said wrapper, are you saying this has metal buttons? The one in question does not. The paint is clearly gone on the hook and eye on the collar but no rust, probably the way it was stored no moisture got to it. Now as far as the measurements, I was under the impression it was 19 in. from center to center on the repeat for the pattern, this it is. 30-33 cms is about 13 in. way to short. I think it's around 48cm. to measure approx. 19 ins.
The one in question has never had board loops or any insignia ans again the seams are the same as green or white HBT tunics, I compared it to original shoulder seams. Thank all again for your input, this quite a mystery, and for personal reasons I must get to the bottom of this, again thank you all fro your patience, if more photos are needed please don't hesitate to ask. Dave.

Sorry 48cm between pattern-repeat means a fake to me

[STUG III]

ss dot

Is 33cms the standard measurement on all SS patterns, Zelts, Tunics and all cammo? Actually after remeasuring, it was closer to 50cms. For reference you can go to Collectors Guild and they have a 4 pocket for sale, if you look at the repeat pattern it's obvious that is longer then 33cms, that translates to 13ins. you can estimate the length of the sleeve about 21.5 inches.

[phild]

Yes, I agree metal buttons are very suspicious to me too ..but there are no metal buttons on the wrap that started this thread

Sorry this was my mistake. I saw the buttons in photo #18 and they (small buttons) looked very much like rusted steel to me....but now I see them in close up in photo 28 or 29 and they are clearly not steel.

I guess that I have specific objections to this wrap any longer, I have examined a few of these dot wraps that I know to be 100% real. They were different from this one in a number of ways BUT they were also each different from each other....so clearly variations were made.

I am full agreement now that this wrap a very different from the typical 80s era Fakes.