ambush at poteau

[KM-NZ]

good research ruimteaapje, blijf het delen aub.

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi Ruimteaapje,

thanks for your work, as you were almost the only one to provide exclusive content, and because you identified at least one guy !

Again, anyone is having info on the various guys ?

By the way, did we identify the SS-KB which filmed and photographied the event ?

See You

Vince

[Ruimteaapje]

On 03-22-2012, 03:46 AM

In addition: the photographer was SS-Unterscharführer Max Büschel (of Kursk fame) and the cameraman an SS-Unterscharführer Schäfer. Both were captured by the Americans later that day, December 18, near Waimes with four undeveloped films.

See what I mean? People tend to ignore my contributions to this and other topics even when it is a specific answer to a what they asked (Gran Sasso, SS3, tylermclaren, etc.), which makes me wonder why I should reply to their questions at all and that's why I've decided that I won't.

[Massimo F.]

Has anyone identified the type of trench knife worn by the MG gunner?

[Lloyd I.]

That's it, no more replies from me. I refuse to share further info from my research.

I propose we all just stop sharing then when our own sensitive natures get in the way.

As a historian myself debate is openly welcomed because it often leads to more discovery. A perfect example made here regarding the Poteau Ambush series. Slamming ones books shut suddenly and stomping out of the room negates whatever intelligent research you have to offer in what had been a pleasant thread.

Relax man. Geez. You're contributions are incredibly helpful.

Here is what I've had for some of these men.

[Lloyd I.]

i have looked through all the pics, books, and frames from short film but i am unable to see what actual smock the ss guy standing with the mg42 gunner
is wearing i can see its long a second pattern but what cammmo i think blured edge but his helmet to me shows no flaps over the spring cllip so i presume
its spring side outside. that would give spring smock, spring helmet cover
both blured edge is that correct does any one know
cheers

At first I thought Blurred Edge as well. There are some images however that lead me to believe it's Palm Pattern Smock autumn side out accounting for the weakness in contrasts.

I have enlarged many of the frames of this sequence focusing only on this grenadier. It is easy to identify him from the fact that his Kochgeschirr is missing it's lid, his use of the captured M1 Carbine and other features of course.

[Lloyd I.]

In this well know sequence he is bringing up the rear. You can see the palm pattern to the left upper sleeve.

[rossmcpharter]

I thought the Palm pattern was not made in M42 smocks and this man wears an M42 smock with loops on the shoulders

[Flammenpanzer]

Names

I think the Berhard Nasse and Ernst Kalt were a play on words by a 1/6 action figure maker who named some figure from the battle. Kalt Nasse.... Cold Nose.

[Lloyd I.]

I think the Berhard Nasse and Ernst Kalt were a play on words by a 1/6 action figure maker who named some figure from the battle. Kalt Nasse.... Cold Nose.

Absolutely correct. Not their names rather a play on words and not Walter A. either.

[Lloyd I.]

Definitely Blurred edge autumn side not Palm Pattern.

last image lower left corner as evidenced by the missing lid on the kochgeschirr.

[Lloyd I.]

I've compiled all the footage into a movie but haven't uploaded it yet. It had to come from multiple sources.

[Ruimteaapje]

Nasse: fictional name (German word for "wet")
Kalt: fictional name (German word for "cold")
Armbrusch: has been discussed in many forums and the man himself already confirmed long ago that it's not him (he can be seen in another photo that was not taken at Poteau)

I propose we all just stop sharing then when our own sensitive natures get in the way.

As a historian myself debate is openly welcomed because it often leads to more discovery. A perfect example made here regarding the Poteau Ambush series. Slamming ones books shut suddenly and stomping out of the room negates whatever intelligent research you have to offer in what had been a pleasant thread.

Relax man. Geez. You're contributions are incredibly helpful.

Here is what I've had for some of these men.

[SMB67]

"I've compiled all the footage into a movie but haven't uploaded it yet. It had to come from multiple sources".

Really look forward to seeing that Lloyd, I will be visiting the Ardennes next year on a 4 day battlefield trip.
The trip will be headed by Military Historian Paul Reed, I know he plans to recce the ambush site later this year with a view to adding it to the tour itinerary.

Best SMB.

[Ruimteaapje]

I've done some more digging into the history of the Poteau photos. It seems evident from the complete sequence of the pics taken by SS-PK-Berichter Büschel that he and the cameraman left Rollbahn D at Honsfeld to accompany the Stabskompanie (staff company) of SS-PzAA1 as they drove over Heppenbach and Amel to reach the village of Born in the afternoon where they linked up with the rest of schnelle Gruppe Knittel (which had used Rollbahn E) and remained there for the night.


Members of the Stabskompanie - particularly from its Panzerspähzug (armoured recce platoon) and the Fahrradzug (bicycle platoon) which hitched a ride at the enginedecks of the armoured cars - are pictured at the abandoned American supply dump and later near Born. An Sd.Kfz. 234/1 from this Stabskompanie was photographed with a load of men from the Fahrradzug hitching a ride on its engine deck. This platoon was also part of the Stabskompanie and Helmut Merscher - a veteran from this platoon - confirmed that indeed they switched from their bicycles to the armoured cars. Among the men on the engine deck is the SS-Rttf later photographed at Poteau. In another photo a waiting column of 8-wheeled armoured cars is vicible behind the two NCO's who share cigars. Also note in the photos taken at the supply dump the mixture of men in a variety of panzer uniforms and the light gear of the other soldiers in the pics - consistent with those soldiers from the Fahrradzug.

The Stabskompanie left Born in the morning of the 18th and drove over Kaiserbaracke - where the 2. (le.SPW) and 3. (VW) Kompanie had secured the crossroads - to the village of Recht where Knittel met with Hansen. IMO, that's how photographer Büschel, cameraman Schäfer, Knittel's aide Stiewe and those 234's carrying soldiers from the Fahrradzug ended up at the famous "ambush scene" near Poteau. While the meeting between Knittel and Hansen took place, I think the Stabskompanie drove up the road to Poteau to prepare their further advance behind Hansen's battlegroup. As the men waited for Knittel and new orders, Büschel took advantage of them loitering around to take pics of them advancing and "attacking" up the road towards the "ambush scene" where they came across some of Hansen's grenadiers who were also photographed. Note the distinct difference between the light gear from the Fahrradzug in the initial pics and the heavier gear of Hansen's grenadiers which appear later in the sequence.

Part of the men from the Fahrradzug are dressed in Luftwaffe gear. A massive 25 percent of the SS-PzAA1 consisted of Luftwaffe personnel at that time - ground personnel that was transferred to the Leibstandarte to make up for the huge losses the decimated division had suffered in Normandy. At that time - weeks before the Bulge, the SS lacked the means to provide proper Waffen-SS uniforms for all these men. Merscher confirmed that many were still in their Luftwaffe gear when the Ardennes Offensive started - and even this was a hodgepodge of Luftwaffe items because the airforce was also on its last legs.

But while Knittel talked with Hansen he received orders from Mohnke: Peiper had managed a breakthrough at Stavelot and the Schnelle Gruppe was to follow him to La Gleize. Goltz, the 234's and their passengers from the Fahrradzug doubled back over Recht to Kaiserbaracke and so did Büschel with Goltz and his men - resulting in the photos of Hansen's Grille's in action near Recht and the pics taken at Kaiserbaracke where members of the 3. (VW) Kompanie acted out the famous Schwimmwagen pics. The Sd.Kfz. 250's from the 2. (le.SPW) Kompanie can be seen in the background. Note that the first pics Büschel took at the Kaiserbaracke crossroads show Goltz in his Schwimmwagen - for me that's further evidence that Büschel arrived there with Golz.

After Büschel and Schäfer left Kaiserbaracke they caught up with Knittel in la Vaulx Richard.

More later

mewe.com/join/career_crimes_and_trial_of_gustav_knittel