SS Sidecap

[ReichsHeini]

Here are four different examples with a single hemline.
Just for comparison sakes.

[Robin Lumsden]

I have a slight concern with this cap, for the reason touched on above.

The insignia look like fine originals, but M40 caps were obsolete by the time stocks of Italian gaberdine were requisitioned in mid-43.

I cannot understand why Italian gaberdine would have been used to produce an obsolete cap pattern, especially an enlisted one, rather than the regulation M43 einheitsfeldmuetze.

[Glenn McInnes]

Could an enlisted man not have this style of cap privately tailored from Italian Gaberdine later in the war being that he may have liked this style of cap for walking out etc?? Glenn

[Robin Lumsden]

Glenn.

I don't think that's very likely. Officers had to buy all their gear, while enlisted men had theirs issued.

Very few, if any, enlisted men would have had their headgear privately tailored, especially mid-late war.

The M40 was always very unpopular, and most troops much preferred the M43 when it came out.

I can't see an enlisted man having an M40 privately tailored after it had become obsolete. I think he would have preferred to use his issue M43.

It's not impossible, but I think it's highly unlikely.

Regards,

Robin.

[ReichsHeini]

Well this is a good discussion. Robin is correct in his assumptions that it would be unusual for an issue piece to made in an obsolete style (1940) after 1943.
This is the time "large quantities" of this type of material was available.
Maybe this cap was made in 1942? Is it unmarked?
Who is to say during this transitional period to the einheitsfeldmutze, some contract manufacturer of WSS clothing material did not produce some of these.
Jerry

[RoyA]

It is indeed unmarked. I'll try to get pics of the interior and underside of the skirt posted in the next day or two.
Thanks!
Roy

[JOHN VD HEIJDEN]

re

[QUOTE=Robin Lumsden]Glenn.

I don't think that's very likely. Officers had to buy all their gear, while enlisted men had theirs issued.

Very few, if any, enlisted men would have had their headgear privately tailored, especially mid-late war.

The M40 was always very unpopular, and most troops much preferred the M43 when it came out.

I can't see an enlisted man having an M40 privately tailored after it had become obsolete. I think he would have preferred to use his issue M43.

It's not impossible, but I think it's highly unlikely.

well Robin this is a good point you got there
I myself and also some others have also some concerns about the many private made enlisted m-43 cap in the same italin cloth
these days they are flowting on the market some with half-sweatband some none but always size 56
some with trapezoid some with the two piece insigna

i know after the fall of the wall in eastern-europe
there where many coming from the statni film-studio,s and other sources
but how can it be that there now these days you can buy dozens of them if you can effort it
this is making me a bit reserved with these pieces

Regards,

[ReichsHeini]

Johnny,
I agree there are defintely caps reproduced with this kind of material. You have to look at everything very closely these days. I hear that some fakes have been put out with the Statni FILM stamps. I think there are several collectors with real Statni caps, and these are all in this type of material. Most do not have insignia, but some do.

Here is one of the few Peter Whammond has seen with insignia. This one has cloth insignia:
http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Waffe...os/S06447.html

The Statni cap I just aquired and the two caps Peter has on his site are identical to the button. All silver piped. None have any sweatband all have rayon interior.

So, here is the one I just aquired. It comes from a trusted source, and the insigia on this cap are original flatwire. This cap was very hard for me to obtain, through a trusted dealer, Peter Von Lukacs, who pried it out of a private collection for me! I have not seen another one yet with flatwire insignia.....
These caps are not flooding the market but are available to those who seek them. They were sold in 1990 originally. I own another Statni with cloth insignia and side eagle for three years. Have not seen another for sale in my ventures. I have also seen legit allgemeine visors with these stampings.
Jerry

[ReichsHeini]

Roy,
Back to your sidecap... I do not think interior pictures will make a difference here. The only way to prove authenticity here would be to have a period picture of an m-40 in gabardine. Otherwise this piece will always be in a gray area.
I wasn't thinking this is a "one-off" custom cap for an enlisted soldier, but that maybe a contracted maker got some of this material and produced some of these. I have never handled one like this. Has anyone else out there?
I have looked through some hoards of period headgear photos and could not find an enlisted schiffen in this material or any schiffen with a double-stitched hem seam. Nice insignia anyways!
Jerry

[RoyA]

Most interesting discussion!
Perhaps I could summarize at this juncture, and please correct any misinterpretation on my part.....

Eagle
TK
Insignia application
Material
This cap was purchased in 1987, before Statni caps appeared.
At that time, any gaberdine cap was very scarce.
The gaberdine fakes out there have only appeared in recent years.
The fakes out there are all M43's.

One issue to resolve, as pointed out by Mark and Robin.
So...all we need now is a period pic or another example in someone's collection!

By the way, I find authenticating Knight's Crosses child's play in comparison...this is like brain surgery to me.
Roy

[Gary Wood]

"Very few, if any, enlisted men would have had their headgear privately tailored, especially mid-late war.
The M40 was always very unpopular, and most troops much preferred the M43 when it came out.

I can't see an enlisted man having an M40 privately tailored after it had become obsolete. I think he would have preferred to use his issue M43.

It's not impossible, but I think it's highly unlikely. "


Sorry I disagree Robin, enlisted men/NCO did have items privately made and did have many issue items altered even late in the war, and while the m40 cap was replaced with the later m43 it was still worn until the end of the war.

Here are just a few of such practices although most are of uniform alterations as this is easily detectable in photo's, somewhat much harder to detect a custom made side cap in photo's, but as the practice of having uniforms made and altered !!!!!!!!

The first photo is of Josef H, he had this tunic and cap privately tailored when he was still a rottenfuhrer by a Belgium tailor, he later had the tailor upgrade it for him, the Belgium tailor even made the shoulder straps, the standard LAH slip on was cut down and sewn to the straps. this photo was taken in 1943
cheers,
Gary

[Gary Wood]

detail of hand sewn button hole

[Gary Wood]

detail of hand made shoulder strap

[Gary Wood]

picture of Fritz R wearing a oakleaf tailored issued jacket

[Gary Wood]

again Fritz wearing an issue jacket that has had major alterations, jacket length severely shortened and dark green collar added to the issue m43 type jacket