SS Sidecap

[Gary Wood]

Picture of herbe wearing the same type of jacket with the same type of alterations.

Both these photo's were taken in 1944, so even late on in the war this type of practice was still being done, but as I have said it would be far more difficult to identify such alterations/tailor made side caps in photo's but this does not mean that because no one has seen a picture of this type of item in wear there is something amiss.

I see no problems at all with the caps posted by Roy or Jerry.
cheers,
Gary

[ReichsHeini]

photos

Thanks for these great pics! It is always a learning process for me, and it is great that Gary can provide examples and period photos of this use of custom uniform items by enlisted troops. Gary provides us some great images. It would be hard to pick out a ribbed cap in a period photo, but maybe one will turn up Roy! I think Gary should be writing a book for us on SS insignia and uniforms!

I think many of us have seen recently photos that have made us think twice about what insignia and uniforms were really utilized by the Waffen SS, and some of it was far from what we accept as "normal".

Jerry

[Gary Wood]

Jerry,
Thanks for the comments, I think there is a lot to be learnt from looking properly at period photo's, the computer makes than much easier as you do not have to strain your eyes.

I wonder what would happen if the 2 latter tunics pictured above turned up at a show, with dark green collar, shortened skirt, lower outer patch pocket removed, I would bet a pound to a penny they would be passed on by most
cheers,
Gary

[Glenn McInnes]

I agree Gary many variations were used by the Germans, many of these variations if ever to come up for sale would be shot down by collectors because they are not "textbook". I think your pics have proven the latter.

Good Job Glenn

[RoyA]

Thank you Gary; much appreciate your posting those great photo's!
Roy

[Langemark]

Sorry Roy, but fake items in Italian gabardine are not at all recent !

I handled some fake items in Italian gabardine back in the very early ’90.

I particularly remember several pairs of FAKE M44 Feldhosen produced by the French dealer/faker Caravano. If you take into account what is necessary to produce a fake pair of trousers, you can easily imagine the amount of Italian gabardine that was, at that time, available to fakers !

On the other hand, take into account the number of fake caps that can be produced from an equal section of cloth necessary to produce a pair of fake trousers … !!! I do not even exclude that, maybe, some fake caps were later made out from ‘old’ fake trousers ?

This being said, original items in Italian gabardine do exist and these are very cool, but we all have to remain utmost careful,

Best,
Mark

[Robin Lumsden]

Gary.

These are nice pictures.

I know that enlisted ranks and NCOs had their existing stuff tailored and retailored as the war went on (waste not, want not) but I still think it's unlikely that gabardine would have been used post-mid '43 (if that was indeed the case)to make an M40 cap from scratch.

[RoyA]

Sorry Roy, but fake items in Italian gabardine are not at all recent ! I handled some fake items in Italian gabardine back in the very early ’90. This being said, original items in Italian gabardine do exist and these are very cool, but we all have to remain utmost careful,

Best,
Mark

Hi Mark,
What I meant was that there seems to be consensus that the flood of reproduced gaberdine M43's has been in recent years.
And you're right, we do have to be diligent, which is why I posted this example on the forum for the feedback of such knowledgable folks that I very much respect.
Given the following:
1) confirmation from Gary that EM's/NCO's wore privately tailored clothing, and wore M40's until war's end
2) spurious gaberdine items seem to have appreared on the market in the early '90's as you indicated
3) we've all seen the faked gaberdine M43's
4) and very importantly, for those still apprehensive...in the past 17 years evidently no one has ever seen, handled, or examined a piece such as this...

Well, the conclusion is obvious to me and most positive!

I'm very satisfied with the outcome of this discussion, and sincerely thank everyone who offered feedback. This is a great forum!

Best regards,
Roy

[Langemark]

Hi Roy again,

I might sound boring here to come back on the ‘two’ stitching lines along the hem of the cap, but my question is : what could be the function of each of these two stitching lines ?
Could you please check if the upper stitching line holds the lining in place (?), or the inside stiffener (?), or the flap (?), or anything else (?)…
I still wonder why two stitching lines are found when only one was necessary ?

A photo of the interior of the cap would probably help a lot.

All the best,
Mark

[RoyA]

Hello Mark,
As Jerry said, I don't think interior pictures are going to make a difference here. I believe the double hemline has to be regarded as a privately tailored feature that can't be qualified based on typical "issue" construction patterns.
I think we've "beat this one to death" but if you want to PM me with your email address, I'll take some pics for you and we can continue the discussion offline.
Best regards,
Roy